Is it time to stop saying “well, you at least need to get a 4 year college degree” ?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Mike Eskimo, Aug 6, 2019.

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  1. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    the whole point of the world the way its currently constructed is to make us all vulnerable to misinformation and to be blind to that fact and think we are informed.

    don't think because you know its propaganda that you aren't influenced by it. repetition is a powerful drum that will put the beat in your head whether you want to dance or not.
     
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  2. awasson

    awasson Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Not for the plumber it doesn’t. There’s school smarts and there’s life smarts.
     
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  3. CJM3309

    CJM3309 Tele-Meister

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    0o9l
     
  4. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Truer words never spoken. My son the engineer approaches every project the same. He analyzes the problem, organizes what is needed to solve the problem, then tackles the project. His mind is organized. He can place things in different place all over a project and use them at hand when needed. It's not just designing water systems controls he's good at, it's anything he does.

    My son's home has a lot of fancy stuff built into the house at his wife's request. Recently, an expensive built in dish washer failed. He tried calling for someone to repair it, when he told them what it was, no one would touch it. So, after work one day, he pulled the front off it, and low and behold inside the unit was a piece of pvc pipe capped on both ends with a complete schematic of the electrical system inside it. He studied the system, got out his meter, checked and found a bad circuit board. He got on the net, and found a replacement for very little money. Ordered it fast shipped got it in a day or so, and repaired the unit himself. He is not an appliance repairman, but his understanding of how electrical stuff works made quick work of a problem that presented itself. I don't know about everyone, but I do know that my son's higher education has made life a lot more interesting for him, and has paid off handsomely for him.
     
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  5. awasson

    awasson Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    I hope your niece and husband take a chunk of that dough and invest it instead of buying a bass boat, bigger house or whatever people who don’t have a guitar habit spend their money on. We saw a lot of people spend big money when Alberta oil was in demand. After the boom, a lot of folks who didn’t plan well were flat broke and some bankrupt.
     
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  6. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    even planes have toilets, but toilets don't necessarily have planes
     
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  7. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    This past weekend we camped with family friends. The husband teaches writing at a local college. He is not your typical professor: he dropped out of high school and followed The Dead around, only going to college when he was 29. So now he finds himself trying to teach technical writing to engineering majors! It's a hard sell because their class culture looks down on it.
     
  8. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Holic

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    Question is value...

    Tuitions are out of control with lower standards and guaranteed student loans effectively "forcing" teen agers to fund universities!

    Feds should have put a cap on loans instead of tailoring to particular universities forcing universities to either come up with funding or down size. EVERY department I was in was top heavy with tenured instructors who "worked" ~5 hours a week! In graduate courses TA's do most of the heavy lifting. Instructors roll out exams and projects from years past!

    $26K is NOTHING in the scheme of things! I know many with very marginal degrees (art photography!) with $100K loans!

    $26K should pay for an education that garners $50K year starting salary. The right graduate courses are usually free or you get paid to TA and that should bump you up to $75K year starting salary. That should be 5-6 years of schooling.

    I don';t know of many trades you can work your way up to $75K in 5 years on the job and keep growing....

    Just don't pick art photography! (NOT ME! I got an MS in Geoscience!)

    TEX
     
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  9. stormin1155

    stormin1155 Tele-Meister

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    In the words of Rick (Rick and Morty), "School isn't a place for smart people."

    My oldest son attended about a week of JC and dropped out. I gave him a real hard time about it. He now works for Pioneer Hybrid as a Research Scientist. Everyone else with that title (and salary) has at least a Masters, and many a PhD. He is completely self-taught. It's nice that some companies recognize skills, ability, and potential that don't come from college transcripts.

    Skilled trades aren't what they used to be... my son-in-law makes a six-figure income as a plumbing manager. Most skilled trades have the advantage of not being able to have them done remotely/overseas.
     
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  10. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    The chicks know what they are after, per this Tinder study... lol ... and this will have more impact than what the companies are doing.
    https://www.psypost.org/2019/08/men...ducated-women-according-to-new-research-54187


    Reality is that most trades cannot be outsourced. If your toilet is spewing sewage you are not calling a help desk line staffed in another country with two-day shipment to walk you through rebooting your bathroom. You need a guy now because your family is going out of their mind. "here take my money!"

    However, the trades have unions and a couple of people in the extended family (cousins/etc) that worked in electrical trades would mention how they hadn't worked in several months because they were on 'a union list' where calls would come in for labor needed on a job and if you were next in line on that list you got the job. Another trades guy that went to my high school, I ran into trading guitar gear, he seemed about half on half off work, keeping a trailer with a roommate and his work van plus some nice guitar gear. No reward for the hustler it would seem -- if they did a good job would they get preferential call backs? Is that why they were waiting so much? Seemed to me a very poor system. Someone was making money but I didn't see it. Those trade jobs are all unionized and have weird nuances because of it, which requires a degree to sort out.

    Most kids going to college have no clue what they are going for, and parents have no idea how to help them. Certainly follow your interests, but choose what pays, it's an investment in time and cash going to college and should be analyzed just like a startup business plan.


    .
     
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  11. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    One element that I experienced first hand was that going to a prestigious school put you in a group of people who were either A) very ambitious, go getter, make something out of yourself types or B) Already from super successful families who based on social interactions could totally hook you up.

    it is interesting about the mail room thing... one of my brothers is the CEO of a large, multinational corporation... zero college. He worked his way up at the phone company of all places... then jumped after they started combining to an HR related field and then built his own company, sold it once, was subsumed, had a customer bankroll him into a second version of it... quadrupled in size and then he sold BACK to the first company who then spun him out on his own to build it a third time.... no college. just drive (and smarts)

    I see no reason not to go to college. The experience shapes you as a person and provides experiences you don't get otherwise... at the same time, getting a trade is awesome and WITH a degree, you could build your own thing and eliminate any ceiling...

    One of my daughters started in the 'mailroom' at a very very famous talent/content company and in a year has had a couple of promotions and multiple raises and benefits... she does have a degree though...

    My son has his welding cert and is working as a welder this summer (for a legal pot grower of all things) next year, he'll finish his degree and he is thinking he is going to go teach for a couple of years in Mississippi in a special program... he says he'll weld on the weekends to afford his hobby....

    While we planned for college, the tuition increases over the past 15 years have been insane and ridiculous... but, we tightened our belts, the kids got scholarships and we believe we will finish this next year without having incurred any debt. The kids when to a variety of schools--> Univ of London, Universities in California and state schools in California and Oklahoma... and the range has been tremendous... but, we have not had to say 'no' and I think they all got good educations....

    The connections at the fancier schools have had a greater net for opportunities in the work place... all worlds are small worlds... so knowing people is a HUGE bonus. Having that 'Ivy' background has opened doors for me to be sure... growing up, my two closest friends fought our way out of lower middle class and blue collar and all got ourselves into more prestigious schools... One of the guys retired as a VP for a large pharma company and is now teaching college in San Diego, One is a venture capitalist and kind of the inventor of the employee driven leveraged buyout and is dabbling in hollywood (producing) and I'm quasi retired from tech stuff, but now having a blast working in education and government initiatives.
     
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  12. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    whats a phone company?
     
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  13. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    You know, Apple :p
     
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  14. dswo

    dswo Tele-Holic

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    College professor here:

    1. According to a 2013 study published by the New York Federal Reserve, two out of three college graduates are NOT employed in a field directly related to the one they majored in. That could mean college is wasted on them, or it could mean that what you major in isn't important; what makes you able to see the big picture and adapt to a changing world is actually your coursework in general education. Compare David Epstein's current bestseller Range: he argues that specialization gives you an advantage in simple environments with clear, well-defined rules; but in complex environments (like real life), the generalist fares better.

    2. It's a mistake to push everyone toward a four-year degree. Some of the money we're spending on universities would be better invested in community colleges/polytechnicals.

    3. If you think universities cost too much, talk to your kids about what they expect from it. One reason -- not the only reason -- American universities are so much more expensive than European and Asian universities is that American schools spend a lot of money on the "college experience": expensive recreational facilities, expensive dining facilities, expensive sports programs. Cut those, and you'll cut costs. What makes these things hard to cut is that they attract students. If you don't offer them, (the fear is) students will go somewhere else that does. Right now we're caught in a vicious circle. Students complain about high costs, but they also want the things that keep costs high. The current generation of students didn't create this problem, and I don't know how to break out of the circle. One question that I hope parents and prospective students will start asking is: what percentage of my classes will be taught by employees on part-time and short-term contracts? That's a better quality indicator than whether your school has a climbing wall or winning football team.
     
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  15. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The racket and the sham and the scam that is higher education is nearly played out, IMO.
    The shysters had their day, but in the end you simply can't sustain the lie
     
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  16. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    this is called networking, its a different sort of education. soon you will learn there are 2 sets of rules. one is for everybody else, the other of course for the worthy, the elite, the special ones.
     
  17. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Evidently it needs to be reiterated - the through line isn’t to do the skilled trade until you die. It’s to move into ownership, have guys working for you, etc.

    You do not need a college degree additionally to accomplish that.

    Plumbing school/trade school - not life school.


    Yep, skilled trades aren’t what they used to be.

    There was a time around here where there were 20 electricians for every job.

    Now there are 20 jobs (or more) for every electrician.
     
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  18. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    This really is too bad, if this is what people are finding. My nephews thus far have found a lot of help with writing (although frankly, they got a ton of it at home long before higher learning - one of my nephews taught people to write, before he enrolled in law school). Even those with degrees in Engineering and Economics got that.

    One of my professors at UNO was Dick Collin. He did a newspaper column with the Times Picayune called "The Underground Gourmet" some of you might have heard about. He spent a lot of hours, working with me on my writing. I took every class I could with him - any subject. Because I knew he was really teaching writing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_H._Collin
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  19. regularslinky

    regularslinky Tele-Afflicted

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    I've done everything from unload trucks to practice law for a living. I've got a high school vocational school certificate (Drafting), an associate's degree (Human Services) , a bachelor's degree (Elementary Education) and a juris doctorate (3 year law school degree). Man, I'm tired.

    I think the problem starts in high school. High schools should not try to train kids for specific careers, nor should they push kids to go straight into college. High schools should focus on making sure that every kid is literate - verbally, financially, scientifically, artistically, historically, musically, philosophically, civically, digitally, etc. High schools should expose kids to a wide range of ideas and experiences (including volunteer and service projects), encourage critical thinking, and help kids figure out what a good life looks like for them. That would put kids in a much better position to set their course after high school.

    For most people life is not about money or prestige - it's about finding meaning and happiness. Thanks to my teenage "theatre kid" son, I've gotten to know a lot of people in our local theatre community. Many of them have four year theatre studies degrees. They work low paying non-theatre jobs during the day, then happily pour their hearts and souls into community theatre at night for zero compensation. They seem far happier and more fulfilled than most of my attorney colleagues.
     
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  20. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Maybe night school classes in Accounting, Tax Law, Business Administration. Any skill you can accumulate that will enable you to escort a Permit Application past a Planning Board - no, that's not always the focus of some of these Liberal Arts Educations. That's honestly an uneven thing, and some schools with marginal reputations are great and others with Famous reputations are in ruins.
     
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