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Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by seanmwhite1, May 20, 2011.
About the same $ for the Korg OT-120. Also good for set-up work.
Anyone besides me notice the Marked increase in Intonation threads lately ?
Sent ya a PM to try to help in your location vs. rambling on here.
How did people do the intonation before electronic tuners ? Maybe they used their ears ?
More hints for successful intonation: use the bridge pickup, but turn the tone down all the way to eliminate confusing overtones. Mute the other strings so that you don't get sympathetic vibrations.
And if you've moved the saddles all over creation, measure the distance from the nut to the center of the 12th fret and place the edge of the saddle exactly that far away as a starting point. It will get you within an eighth of an inch or so in most cases.
Most of all, use a good tuner! A stage tuner that only gets you within ten cents is worthless for intonation.
ALL strings,no matter what brand,start loosing their intonation and "die" after 6-10 HOURS of playing,it is not only sweat & dirt that cause this "death" but pure..."mechanics" (metal rubbing against metal,metal stretching during bends etc) ........ buy strings in bulk and change them frequently (not every...2 weeks...) this is the only way to good intonation & good SOUND.
Because of the nature of your post, you sound like you might be a novice player, I would bet that you are playing your notes and chords with too much pressure, the frets Fender put in those models are to me, way too high and you will be "pressing" the note out of tune...Personally, I find my strings need to be replaced after every gig, but I like the brightness, feel and twang of new strings...Either way, if you have had a good setup carried out on your guitar and it is intonated well, it won't go out! The neck may move a little with temperature changes, but not enough to cause the situation you speak of...I spend a lot of my day setting up guitars professionally and get a real good response from my customers for what I do...The scenario you put forward to me, isn't viable actually...Like some here who do this, I am sure I could set your guitar up fine, but I can't play it for you...No offence intended at all by the way...
I don't change my old and crusty strings till one of them breaks. Haha. I'm just lazy like that.
Before tuners, the old tuning fork was used as a reference note. And, you tuned each string by that note. I think I still have mine. I prefer the new technology much better!
1.) Not a novice player. Like I said, I've never got into all of this stuff until recently. I'm not a gear head like some of my friends. Plus I've never had a lot of money to go get set ups or buy specific tuners or strings. For the longest time I had no pedals or amp (pawned for gas money!). I used the gear at the church where I do most of my playing. I'm by no means an expert player or an expert on anything related to what most people consider basic guitar maintenance. But I'm not a novice.
2.) Elderly is where I always used to take my guitar to get work done. I realized that if I want to be able to get my guitar back in anything less than 2 weeks then I would have to take it somewhere else. The turnaround is much quicker other places and to be honest I get the same result no matter where I take the guitar. The intonation is solid for a couple of weeks and then it's back to being infuriating again.
3.) I'm not the kind of person that wants to know how to take apart my car and put it back together. I know how to drive and when I get in my car I want it to start up and get me where I want to go. I can change the oil, brakes, spark plugs, bearings, etc in a pinch, but for the most part I let professionals handle it. I have the same feeling about my guitar. When I pick it up I want it to work and to play the notes as truly as possible. I don't want to tinker with it and end up breaking something or messing something up.
I'm already limited by my stupid fingers not being able to move like I want them too, the last thing I want to to be limited by my instrument too.
Anyway, this is my way of saying thanks for all the help and I'll look into it, but I'm probably just going to save up and buy a nicer car.
They did and you've heard the recording. Ouch. We love the oldies in spite of their intonation.
Later, stroboscopes were used...and still are I'm sure. New tuners with a needle really help for a fraction of the cost.
Hey, what was that crap tuner back in the 80s everybody used? Sabine? Is that it? It was LED and kind of tuned by "not close", "close" and "close enough" lights. To me you could still be off by a good 2 or 3 cents. That works out to +/- 6, right? Ouch. Now it seems half the cheap tuners are the same way.
If you're offended by out-of-tuners like me then get yourself a decent tuner, set your intonation and leggo the death grip. You'd be amazed by how much technique can cause it to be "out". Don't beleive me? Teach guitar for a few hours/weeks/months/years. You'll be glad when your hearing goes. I am. Huh?
I'm going to weigh in and say, my strings last for months at a time (even when gigging several times a week) and intonation, once set, has never betrayed me (CAVEAT!) except when there was a structural problem with a guitar. I had a 1978 Strat that suddenly went sharp because a section of the fretboard began to sink. My '68 335 began to have HUGE intonation problems when the frets became so worn that the intonation couldn't be reconciled. Ironically, I have a Silvertone 1448 with intonation so close as to fool most digital tuners. I've also bought name brand strings that wouldn't tune. Please get yourself a second opinion, do some research...when you hear hoofbeats, think of horses, not zebras.
That's what "The Telecaster Handbook" tells me...
4 gigs a week, a lot of sweating, even bass strings can go in two weeks!
It gets expensive I can tell you.
Originally Posted by mattyj...
"aren't you supposed to tune to open string, and then check 12th fret harmonic? rather than 12th fret, fretted?"
"That's what "The Telecaster Handbook" tells me..."
The Fender Owner's Guide says:
ah yes, now I remember.
that'll learn me not to rush ahead without reading closely next time.
I profusely apologise for sprouting intonation heresy!
What's my punishment?
No one can help you, because the situation you describe is basically impossible. Have it properly set up, and LEAVE IT ALONE. You can only be imagining that the intonation is out, unless the strings just need changing. Seriously.
I think the real solution here is quite simple. It's been set up at Elderly? Take it back there and ask them why the intonation was off two weeks later. No one doing setups at Elderly is going to tell you that it is acceptable for your guitar to need to be set up every two weeks. It has nothing to do with the cost or quality of the guitar. If everything that the OP has said is correct, then there is some whacky technical issue with the guitar (as Mark was suggesting). If it was purchased new it may be covered under warranty.
Take the guitar into Elderly, bring all your setup receipts (whether you have had it done there or elsewhere) or else a list of the dates of all the setups. DON'T ask them to set it up. Ask them to fix whatever the problem is that causes the intonation to go out every two weeks.
He'll be upset when they tell him it isn't out, which it won't be unless he's moved the saddles himself. Re-read the original post: he can hear a difference when the saddles HAVEN'T moved, but when he moves them "it has no effect". Impossible.
2 weeks? That's a lot for me. Back in the 80's and 90's when I gigged 5 nights a week with uncoated strings, my rule was 3 nights per set. After that the strings were simply no fun anymore, no matter how I wiped them down. Now I use Elixirs and can get away with perhaps 7 or 8 shows per set of strings.
It is entirely possible that the intonation issues are related to string wear, but far from 100%.