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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by grolan1, Nov 28, 2018.
I resemble that remark!
I have a 1966 Bandmaster in my basement. At one time I was using it with two 2x12 cabinets just because I could.
It might be a nice idea to put in it in a combo box with two 10’s. It’ll still be heavy though.
I'm 6 years over your criteria (31yo), but I do lots of recaps and handwired builds... Does that count?
I've gigged my '68 Blackline Super Reverb a number of times and love it.
It's not about "Those amps are too Big" or "Those amps are too loud."
There's a ton of small modern combo amps that are much louder than the Super and there's still a lot of people in rock bands with Half Stacks.
The real issue is just a saturated market all around & perception. Just because Princeton Reverbs command a higher price doesn't mean the buyers are out gigging those, though some folks do. The guitar & guitar playing has largely become a personal/bedroom thing while the places to play live music shrink in pay and scale every year for various reasons.
I'd hold on to it 100%.
Great points all around, for sure.
I'm going to add one more note to this epic thread - my two icons of tone are Johnny A and Duke Levine.
Johnny is traveling and recording with a Kemper and Duke uses a bunch of stuff, but sounds so darn good through a Princeton.
Cousin Kenny is a Princeton guy as well. Small amps aren't just for overdriven sounds.
I’m kinda torn. Over time, for live work, I’ve migrated to bigger amps than I used to use (now a Hot Rod Deluxe and an Origin 50), but I play quieter live than I used to.
AND, they both have a really good MV.
AND they both weigh 40lbs.
AND for home, I just use a MicroCube (and am happier than ever with my volume, tone and dynamics at home.
I think the reality is, even if you want bigger iron, those old Fenders are just unecessarily live, heavy and fickle. Not because they are unreliable, but because if you do want the amp to breathe, a Super or Twin will be too loud for most venues.
To say 40w is only marginally louder than 20w is maybe mathematically correct, but also misleading. That’s only the case all other things being equal. Same circuit, cab, and speaker. Intuition and experience tells me if I could safely plug a DR circuit into a SR speaker complement/cab, the DR would not be nearly as loud or project nearly as well as a SR. Maybe I’m wrong on that, I don’t know.
I also think many guys who think a Super isn’t that loud may not have that great a handle on how loud they are on stage and FOH. Because in reality, a Deluxe Reverb is often too loud for the room and driving people away. And any Super I’ve ever plugged into or shared a stage with is way “louder” than a DR, IME.
7591 is a power pentode, but make sure to replace them in your amp. It'll smoke most amps. Since most amps don't.
Want a loud amp, get a SR and put in efficient new (high SPL) speakers... it will be LOUD. Want a amp that you can control the volume get a SR with CTS Alnico low efficiency(low SPL) speakers.. very manageable volume wise.
I should add I use a attenuator from time to time on my larger amps...
I stand by you can basically gig any amp in any situation if you have the right tools and know how to use them. Just because your amp is large doesn't mean you are going to be loud. The band I'm in the other guitarist plays a 18 watt Marshall clone, he is always louder than I am, but I like my tone better!
This touches on something that has been in the back of my mind thru this whole thread.
When I was 10-12 years old (early 70's) my Grandfather was involved w/ booking entertainment at the local Legion/VFW/Moose. Mostly is was country bands, and they had "big" Fender and later PV gear. I don't remember it being loud; even at the AL which was a fairly small space, you could hold a conversation. Now it wasn't back ground music, it had a full presence, as there was dancing, but not window shaking volume. Same when I was in H.S./college and I some times subbed bass in local society and Polka bands, I always borrowed either a Gibson 1x15 combo or a B-15N from the school.. neither was more than 50 watts and I always sat in the mix just fine amongst the Supers, Twins and early Classics, we used the house PA (almost always Shure VM or PV) or a small column based system for vocals and the bands had a nice musical sound. Remember these amps were designed for this type of gig, the idea of distortion was a product of the time, but not how they were marketed untill late in the SF era. The sound of Country and Pop-Jazz has changed along w/ rock due to PA tech, but you should still be able to work up a usable sound for any style as pedal technology has changed also, and we have many more flavors and options. While it's some what hearsay, I have a old Boss modeler that I some times plug in to my 4x10 it adds a great deal of spread and depth to the modeled sound, and tweaking the patches can be quite rewarding; low volume OD has a nice full flavor I don't get from my Champ .
It is difficult to find a place these days where a 40-50+ watt amp can be run wide open to generate power tube distortion, but that dosen't mean there is no use for them. In the same way "little" amps were shamed BITD, we have let popular opinion limit our options on larger gear. This coupled with cash still being tight/guarded in many places, along w/ aging backs and knees among those who remember what these amps can do at more reasonable volumes means they are a hard sell. Perhaps gathering friends for big amp/resonable volume jams and posting some good clips on You Tube etc. would swing the pendulum back a bit.
That's one thing I've always loved about my early, and oft-maligned, MV Super Reverb (it's not an ultra-linear). It's funny that as of late the feature everyone hated (which was always really a non-issue if you kept it at 10), is now almost a desirable feature in many circles.
I meant 5691. Good catch.
^^That pretty much sums it up. There are no wrong answers. Just preferences. This thread seems to have struck a nerve. It's interesting the way it shifted from "I'm having trouble selling this amp" to "are big amps good?" Seems like we all should be able to agree that big amps do sound great, but many people prefer to use smaller ones, because those sound good too. Individual preference. And that's why OP is having trouble selling his big amp - more people are preferring smaller (and less expensive, and less heavy...).
Some Ampegs do use 7591s in the power section though.
Around here, I see 60's Twins going for $750-800 and sit for months, a nice, vintage Princeton Reverb might go $1500 or more. Music business for bar bands is about dead hear anyway, but hardly anyone even has a stage big enough to need more than a Princeton or Deluxe Reverb.
For many years I coveted a Dual Rec but couldn’t justify the size or spend. These days those amps are getting cheaper and cheaper.
I bought a couple of lunchbox heads in 2011 and use them a lot, including live (small venues mostly). But it’s not quite the same as the 50/100w experience. Amps are usually miked and sound engineer doesn’t want to hear anything else. But guitars are usually low in the monitor mix so it can be really hard to hear yourself. If I’m using a 50w amp it will be master volumed to death, aimed away from band and audience but on a chair with me standing right next to it so I hear the guitar parts clearly! Big amps just don’t fit in this situation. Which is a pity as it’s as much about dynamics and headroom as it is volume.
THD hotplate and dime it. Fixed problem
Sorry can’t help with lugging her around part. Wheels, side handles and helpers.
OP amp is grail
I was actually looking for a Pro Sonic on Craigslist when I saw it and couldn't stop myself. I'll get round to the service on it one of these days.
20 some years ago, I was playing harp in clubs, and had an affirmative desire NOT to sound like every other harp player. Seemed like everybody else in socal was playing through a 59 Bassman, vintage or reissue, and using a hot-rodded Astatic mic.
I had the hot-rodded mic, but intentionally used different amps.
For big rooms, I found a 72 Twin (for cheap) and had it modified for harp. John Kinder told me it was the least harp friendly amp he had ever worked on; he charged me extra; and now refuses to work on them.
He did his darnedest to make it sound like a Bassman.
So I suppose it would have been easier to buy a Bassman
IN any event, I haven't used it in 10 years or so.
I'm pretty sure there's absolutely NO market for a 72 Twin that's been modified for harp.