Is a Blues Junior speaker swap worth it?

[PCollen]

Right now my main electric guitar amp is an old Blues Junior II limited edition blonde like the one in my pic... You really can't beat 'em for the money as an all around amp IMO but they can sound a bit boxy at times. Would a speaker swap like say to an Eminence Swamp Twang make a worthwhile difference to the tone or is that just throwing $$$ down the toilet and trying to shine a turd lol?

I put a Jensen C12N speaker in mine and was very happy with the swap. I sold the original Fender/Eminence speaker for about half the price of the Jensen, so the cost of the swap was relatively low. When I sold the BJ, I think the Jensen contributed to added value.

 

[jrblue]

I gravitated to a PJ (first issue, MIA) from a BJ but the "issues" are similar. While both amps are sort of junky, if you get them in order, they can be genuinely good amps. Jeff Beck did a whole tour of large venues using a miked PJ. The BJ an EL84 amp, which will never be like a classic Fender 6V6 or 6L6, and unfortunately EL84 tubes in current production are not good tubes. The fake Mullards and Genelexes are poor tubes, and JJs are nothing special either. Good NOS is unobtainium. On the other hand, the circuit responds a lot to the first preamp tube, and for me a good 5751 or 12AY7 reduces the excess gain and delivers great tone. I am not a fan of the stock speaker nor do I like the other suggested Eminence speakers much. Choice of speaker is huge for this amp. What someone else likes may not work for you at all. Most people explaining how a speaker swap worked in their BJ have not played enough hours to even break in the speaker yet, so ignore them. I ended up putting a Weber in my PJ, and it sounded plainly bad until I broke it in, which doid not happen immediately, and it now sounds great. After tube swaps and speaker choice, there are various circuit modes, many of them cheap and easy (if you know how to not electrocute yourself) and which can fix flaws in the basic design. My modded and upgraded PJ is a phenomenal amp. BJs can be made much better without a lot of agony or expense. A real (not reissue) Princeton or Deluxe would be great, but they're costly. Oh -- boxy? Use a Beam Blocker to disperse the sound a little better. Works great in my PJ and eliminates the ice-pick effect of a small amp laser-focused on someone's head.

 

[ZackyDog]

To each is own. I have been using JJ EL84s for years. They are very rugged and sound great. I get mine pretested and matched from Eurotubes.

I'm very partial to alnico speakers, like the Jensen P12R. I think it would sound great in a Blues Junior.

 

[PCollen]

Most people explaining how a speaker swap worked in their BJ have not played enough hours to even break in the speaker yet, so ignore them.

How can you say this ? Do you personally know "most of the people...". Does that statement include YOU , since you would be at the top of the "most people" list ? How long did I have my Blues Jr., and at what point did I swap the speaker ? It's statements like this that serve to impact the credibility of a lot of the information posted in this forum.

 

[telepraise]

Yet another vote for the C-Rex if you're gigging that amp- it'll give it a really big sound for a small box.

As others have said, boxy sounding is inherent in the design. I started with an old BJ to save money and quickly upgraded to a blackface because the BJ's sound wasn't really suited to the genre I was playing.

 

[Chiogtr4x]

How can you say this ? Do you personally know "most of the people...". How long did I have my Blues Jr., and at what point did I swap the speaker ? Sir, with regard to this statement, you know nothing. It's statements like this that serve to impact the credibility of a lot of the information posted in this forum.

I see your point.
The poster was wrong to generalize.
But I know I have been guilty of speaker, tube, and pickup swaps, based on knee-jerk impulse, or because someone has said, " first thing you do, replace X!...," without actually listening to what was stock. I'm a little more objective now ( plus maybe not very picky)


I have my 1999 BJ that does have a Neo Emi, in it now ( clean/powerful), but I did the swap to reduce amp weight ( bad back), but I thing the stock Fender speaker ( Eminence) was a good copy of a workhorse 50 watt Jensen C-12N style- good speaker, I think.

 

[PCollen]

I see your point.
The poster was wrong to generalize.
But I know I have been guilty of speaker, tube, and pickup swaps, based on knee-jerk impulse, or because someone has said, " first thing you do, replace X!...," without actually listening to what was stock. I'm a little more objective now ( plus maybe not very picky)


I have my 1999 BJ that does have a Neo Emi, in it now ( clean/powerful), but I did the swap to reduce amp weight ( bad back), but I thing the stock Fender speaker ( Eminence) was a good copy of a workhorse 50 watt Jensen C-12N style- good speaker, I think.

FYI...I went back and editied that post to make it less "accusatory".

My BJ was a 97...one of the early ones. I did the swap around 2002-3, AIR. I didn't know anything about the original Eminence speaker.... if it was a copy of any other. The Jensen C12N made a significant improvement in tone, so evidently the Eminence wasn't THAT close to the Jensen at the time. I sold the BJ in 2020....

 

[Chiogtr4x]

FYI...I went back and editied that post to make it less "accusatory".

We get passionate about this stuff! I'll fight someone over my favorite acoustic guitar strings! ( not really)

 

[PCollen]

We get passionate about this stuff! I'll fight someone over my favorite acoustic guitar strings! ( not really)

Yeah, and it's Monday and I had to get up early.

 

[VonBonfire]

We get passionate about this stuff! I'll fight someone over my favorite acoustic guitar strings! ( not really)

I do snicker to myself sometimes about users of coated elixirs on the acoustics. Even better when it's coming from the same people who lament polyurethane finishes as "plastic-y" and claiming they deaden tone. But why argue if they do something wrong that just makes you look all that much better? Gigs for me and not for thee!

I have heard guys pontificating and arguing about various guitar/amp/pedals and related mods on forums only to hear them post clips of their playing that were barely beyond beginner phase. I've been gigging 20 some years and when the going gets loud in a live setting you can barely tell the difference between a Gibson and a half decent Epiphone. Let's get passionate about our stamp collections!

 

[srblue5]

I used a Blues Jr II for years and was never quite happy with the sound. It had that boxy ice-pick sound that was tough to dial out. I eventually put a C.Rex in mine but it seemed to make the sound a bit more muddy to my ears. I couldn’t really get a classic clean-ish Fender tone from it. Its tone in its own right is not bad but more mid-y than I liked.

I ended up getting a PRRI and sold the Blues Jr a short while later. I still say the Blues Jr is not a bad amp but it wasn’t right for me and I didn’t want to sink too much money into mods for it. YMMV.

 

[Dik Ellis]

Bill Machrone or Bill M as he was known, was famous for modding Blues Jr,'s. He recommended the Celestion Greenback, so I put one in, and I am very happy with the change.

 

[68goldtop]

Hi!

Yeah, it´s an old thread, but I´ve been around a few BJ´s and I thought some of the replies might be helpful anyway!

... I thin(k) the stock Fender speaker ( Eminence) was a good copy of a workhorse 50 watt Jensen C-12N style- good speaker, I think.

Yes, that´s actually true!
The stock "brown & gold label" Eminence is amazingly close to sound of an original 60´s Jensen C12N/C12Q.
It´s "tighter" than the old Jensens, and it gets a bit bright/piercing at higher volumes - but that was just the case with the original Jensens!
The current C12N reissue sounds quite different (imho) - big bottom, strident hi-end, not good at overdrive...

... if it was a copy of any other. The Jensen C12N made a significant improvement in tone, so evidently the Eminence wasn't THAT close to the Jensen at the time. I sold the BJ in 2020....

Sorry, but I think it´s the other way around (see above)

Bill Machrone or Bill M as he was known, was famous for modding Blues Jr,'s. He recommended the Celestion Greenback, so I put one in, and I am very happy with the change.

Noone will ever say a bad word about Bill, and may he rest in peace!
But, afaik, he could hardly play the guitar (or tune one for that matter) and I wouldn't be TOO concerned about his recommendations about speakers - or even tone-stack modifications... wish I´d never had mine done, but was too lazy to take it back to the tech...

When Bill was working on these amps, there were 2 versions around - version I (too muddy/bassy, faulty reverb) and version II (too bright, OK reverb...).
A "Greenback" might work in a version II, but not in a version I if you want to retain some sort of high-end...
But then - we all have different needs and tastes

cheers - 68.

 

[Dik Ellis]

Hi!

Yeah, it´s an old thread, but I´ve been around a few BJ´s and I thought some of the replies might be helpful anyway!


Yes, that´s actually true!
The stock "brown & gold label" Eminence is amazingly close to sound of an original 60´s Jensen C12N/C12Q.
It´s "tighter" than the old Jensens, and it gets a bit bright/piercing at higher volumes - but that was just the case with the original Jensens!
The current C12N reissue sounds quite different (imho) - big bottom, strident hi-end, not good at overdrive...


Sorry, but I think it´s the other way around (see above)


Noone will ever say a bad word about Bill, and may he rest in peace!
But, afaik, he could hardly play the guitar (or tune one for that matter) and I wouldn't be TOO concerned about his recommendations about speakers - or even tone-stack modifications... wish I´d never had mine done, but was too lazy to take it back to the tech...

When Bill was working on these amps, there were 2 versions around - version I (too muddy/bassy, faulty reverb) and version II (too bright, OK reverb...).
A "Greenback" might work in a version II, but not in a version I if you want to retain some sort of high-end...
But then - we all have different needs and tastes

cheers - 68.

My BillM modded Blues Jr. is the Greenboard version. Had a number of mods done, including a Heyboer transformer and a new reverb tank. Had a Pro Jr. "Woody" but I had to downsize. I kept the Blues Jr. I am quite happy with it.

 

[archetype]

A good part of the boxy sound is from the amp architecture. Changing speakers is a crap shoot.

Try an eq pedal or a joyo American Sound pedal to dial in the sound in your head.

This, exactly. billm consistently said that the circuit was responsible for the boxiness and not the size of the cabinet or speaker. He had a mod that cured it, more or less.

 

[68goldtop]

Hi Dik!

My BillM modded Blues Jr. is the Greenboard version ... I kept the Blues Jr. I am quite happy with it.

Yes, same here!
I´ve had my "green-board" BJ since 1997 - I still like and play it!
Very grateful for BillM´s "reverb-fix"!
Not so happy with the tone-stack mods - made the amp too "bassy" overall.
I worked my way around it with a "bass-shy" speaker, so no problem

cheers - 68.

 

[JRapp]

good money after bad...that's the BJ story.

 

[Dik Ellis]

Hi Dik!


Yes, same here!
I´ve had my "green-board" BJ since 1997 - I still like and play it!
Very grateful for BillM´s "reverb-fix"!
Not so happy with the tone-stack mods - made the amp too "bassy" overall.
I worked my way around it with a "bass-shy" speaker, so no problem

cheers - 68.

I find an EQ pedal solves a lot muddy or ice pick tones.

 

[srblue5]

Right now my main electric guitar amp is an old Blues Junior II limited edition blonde like the one in my pic... You really can't beat 'em for the money as an all around amp IMO but they can sound a bit boxy at times. Would a speaker swap like say to an Eminence Swamp Twang make a worthwhile difference to the tone or is that just throwing $$$ down the toilet and trying to shine a turd lol?

I guess it depends on what you're looking for, what you want to improve, and how much money you want to spend on it.

I owned a stock black tolex Blues Junior II for about 10 years that I never really liked because it sounded ice-picky, cold and boxy. When I read about the BillM mods, I decided to start with a speaker swap to see if that would help the tone and I went with a C-Rex. It made the sound smoother and less ice-pick-y (for lack of a better word) but I still wasn't happy with it. I considered doing other mods to it but I wasn't sure where to start with those and didn't want to throw a lot of money into trying to make it something that it clearly wasn't.

A short while later, I bought a used PRRI and *that* was the warmer, Fender-y sound I was looking for (despite it having a smaller speaker). I ended up selling the Blues Jr but I still have the PRRI.