1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Intuition: do you have intuition

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ping-ping-clicka, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,672
    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Location:
    Between Clever and Stupid
    There is a correlate capability to intuition and that is discernment. It is a funny creature, in that it requires logic, intuition, and imagination - logic to parse the contingencies, intuition to probe the sources, and imagination to run the possible courses. It doesn't manifest in the ability to make decisions without thought, but in an ability to see the out-flowing results of decisions and positions, where they will take the person or body making the decisions. A person with this capability can sit back and see in his mind's eye the decision tree going forward from the decision at hand and envision the permutations, while others may not.

    I might add that this capability is possibly the most irritating of skills or capabilities to possess. It shows in a committee situation where a wonderful idea is hatched and developed. While most are enthusiastic, one committee member sits silently. Eventually, he raises his hand and says, "Um, I wouldn't do that if I were you. Have you thought of where this will go?" If his advice is taken, he is at best seen as throwing cold water on a wonderful, positive idea. If his advice is not taken, when the wonderful idea turns into the debacle he predicted, he raises his hand again and says, "Um, guys. Remember my caution about this idea at the beginning?" At that point he is considered to merely be saying, "I told you so," rather than, "Hey, folks, I can see where things might go. Take advantage of my capability."

    The biggest shortfall of this capability is that it can actually hinder the decision-making process due to the ability to see outcomes. However in my experience, those who have it also seem to have a strong heuristic sense that balances it off.

    Bob
     
    rcole_sooner and Manual Slim like this.
  2. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,061
    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Location:
    In the South
    Yes.

    I've got the Bill Evans album.
     
    ponce likes this.
  3. Manual Slim

    Manual Slim Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,150
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Location:
    Up around the bend
    I get so many dirty looks for asking people if they’ve considered the possibility of x!
     
  4. pypa

    pypa Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    319
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Location:
    new jersey
    I have a strong hunch that I have intuition, but i can't really prove it.
     
  5. TG

    TG Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,097
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2004
    Location:
    The wild west of Ireland
    Yes
     
  6. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    13,306
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    victoria b.c. CANADA
    I agree with everything you wrote except the implication that the unconscious isn't systematically organized. It implies the unconscious is a disorganized collection of random processes, which it most certainly isn't. If I were to re-write what you wrote I would say 'we arrive at conclusions unconsciously, not cognitively'.
     
  7. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    14,717
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    I say intuition is the sum of your life experience on a given subject or process (like buying) , blended with tiny indicators or hints involved with the specific subject you are considering. An indicator may be as little as just one word in a sentence and how it is used. You end up with "my gut says......"
     
  8. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    42,271
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    San Benito County, California
    if you recognize patterns and have enough repeatable experiences with 'the' thing and if you have a mind or train your mind to recognize patterns in activities (similar or not) that have predictable results and you are trusting of yourself and comfortable in mistakes for the reward of intuiting (which is a dopamine goldmine) then you'll see yourself (and others will also trust) as intuitive. When attending or watching sporting events, my adult son marvels that I will predict, accurately, what will happen next prior to it happening. I cannot clarify the exact cues, but I can 'know it' within a range.

    I am guessing, but I think it has to do with subtle cues in body language.

    Synchronicity (or flow) is that (again) dopamine wonderland when more than one person and often 'things' work in concert and through trust, experience (either together or mutual) seemingly independent beings and things work to the betterment of all. My experiences with this include everything from processing firewood, to playing in bands, to working on committees... I feel it with several people I work with... it is both trust and knowing 'how it will break' how people will move and respond....
     
    rcole_sooner likes this.
  9. Charlie Bernstein

    Charlie Bernstein Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,604
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Location:
    Augusta, Maine
    I take it all back!
     
  10. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    13,306
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    victoria b.c. CANADA
    Not all of it please....I want to keep some!
     
    Charlie Bernstein likes this.
  11. memorex

    memorex Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Posts:
    4,483
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Location:
    Sweet Lorain, OH
    I've had many intuitions over the years, and they were all wrong.
     
  12. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    13,306
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    victoria b.c. CANADA
    This is all very interesting stuff. I sense that most people are under the misapprehension that most of their lives are directed by conscious thought...that they are engaged in some sort of seamless process of logical, rational decision making most of their waking hours and then at night the unconscious mysteriously awakens and plays and that's the only time allotted to it. I think this is far from the truth and I think neuroscience backs this up too.

    "Neuroscientists have long known that the brain prepares to act before you’re consciously aware, and there are just a few milliseconds between when a thought is conscious and when you enact it."

    https://qz.com/1569158/neuroscienti...ave long known that,a foundation of free will.

    For me this raises some interesting questions about how we normally think of 'consciousness' (which I'll assume is considered to be a sort of opposite process from 'intuition'). But what would we call those pesky few milliseconds of processing before we are consciously aware of a thought? Obviously we can't call it consciousness, right?

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/there-is-no-such-thing-as-conscious-thought/
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  13. burntfrijoles

    burntfrijoles Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,215
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Location:
    Somewhere Over The Rainbow
    I thought I had it once but it was just gas.
     
  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    26,377
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Right, but since we are not all clones and we all have our own unique set of mental and physical specs: when we all ask ourselves this (or any) same question, we will not all come to the same conclusions.

    In fact, we can probably see that many have instant unconscious thoughts that lead to incorrect assumptions!
    I suppose we might then ask if some people subconsciously process data while other people subconsciously consult their internal assumptions list rather than processing external data, resulting in a confirmation of the bias of the moment.

    Early education seems to suppress subconscious processing because the teachers cannot confirm the learning process if it's too internal.

    Numerous times on jobs I've looked at a space and an object, then determined that the object cannot navigate the space.

    Seems reasonable but for example I was renovating a Boston brownstone basement and we had a spot for stairs, which I told the builder would not fit and meet code. He said it would and we debated a bit after which he called an engineer who came in with a laptop, spent half an hour, went home and the next day concluded the stairs could not fit and meet code.
    He recommended my formerly suggested change to the design.

    Another time I was again renovating a very old house in Brooklyn, and the basement of the split level was getting the kitchen.
    The industrial stove was set for delivery and I told the homeowner it would not fit around the turn in the entry.
    He hired an engineer who did drawings showing the stove making the turn in the entry, and I continued to insist it was not going to fit.
    The homeowner was confident in the engineers drawings but i stuck around for the shipper, who could not get the stove into the building.
    Ripped off a window and the stove was loaded in, after which i put the window back together.

    Those thinking processes were slightly conscious as I knew I was visualizing or calculating, but the spacial geometry was not conscious to a degree that I could have communicated that process verbally. It was also almost instant.
    Further, the fail component was in these cases quite minute, and multiple smart people were present and concluded that it looked fine, including engineers.

    I've had similar experiences in boat building and working for the architect Paul Rudolph.
    For some reason I could almost instantly process spacial data down to a finer degree than trained personnel with computers.
    One involved the elevator tower on a 50 story building I was making architectural models for.
    It was me, Paul Rudolph, and the architect who was doing all the drawings.
    I pointed out a detail that would not work and needed to be changed.
    They looked at the views and were unable to spatially visualize the 3d problem.
    In the end that detail had to be changed, though I forget exactly what the elevator tower conflicted with.
    (This was all or mostly before CAD made it easier to spot spatial issues, though I'm not sure what the hired engineer was running in his laptop)

    All that processing was well below the level of consciousness. Easily called intuition, but that would be the wrong term?
    I was aware of taking in the data and outputting the data, but in between that, the processing was pretty much a mystery to me and to the professionals who were well trained in those exact data processing careers. Or for those professionals, the process simply did not happen?

    We could also consider something like a basketball player who processes and defines the forces required to bounce a ball through a trajectory that will result in it arriving at a location just as another player arrives there.
    Lotta processing with no numbers relating to distance and force.
     
  15. DrPepper

    DrPepper Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    4,152
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Location:
    Texas
    I am certain that I bought some in the 60's...
     
  16. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    56,891
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canuckistan
    Now try to explain that with science, you .. you ... mr science!
     
  17. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,593
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    I “followed my gut” for most of my life, and it usually worked very well, until 3 years ago.

    Then a situation that made some devastating changes in our collective (kid, wife, myself) life occurred. My gut failed me—miserably. Every move I made was negated and twisted and turned against me with horrible ferocity. It destroyed some longtime friendships, created conflict far beyond my 3-person nuclear family and demolished a large part of my social circle.

    It rattled my self-confidence and smashed my reliance on my intuition. My social circle is now much smaller, but significantly stronger and more loyal...but I have a hard time making decisions quickly.
     
  18. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    26,377
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Interesting.
    (And sorry to hear that)

    Can you separate the fact that it was your gut instinct that directed you, from the other factors in the "situation" that resulted in a sequence of poor outcomes?

    Did the situation include options that would have prevented all the problems?
    Had you gone a different route, would everything be fine now?

    Or, had you used some other method of discernment, would you likely have done the opposite?
    Like was your intuition telling you a clearly bad idea was a good idea?

    I've certainly had those experiences when something went badly and I proceeded to question my every move for a while.

    But that; dare I say intuition; implies a belief or assumption that in life, no situation will turn out really badly, because: X Y and Z?
     
  19. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    13,306
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    victoria b.c. CANADA

    More and more I'm coming to see processes and various phenomena like we're discussing less and less as 'either/or', 'off or on' type deals. Either you have intuition or you don't. An experience is either intuitive or it's cognitive. I'm more inclined to see many things as on a spectrum....an analogue rather than digital off/on scale. So I'm suggesting that intuition is a spectrum of experience that describes an array of processing and experiencing including all the examples you give.

    A mentor of mine in the field of behavioural change pointed out that not all unconscious minds (or subconscious if you prefer) are created equal. An example would be your spatial unconscious processing compared to my ability. And then of course there would be Tesla who would represent an exceptional place on the spectrum of intuitive spatial awareness.

    I don't for a minute think of intuitive and unconscious processes as random or disorganized. Intuitive, outside-of-awareness processes have a different organization and logic than how our cognitive processes work. And again, it seems to me that the vast majority of people think their everyday lives are primarily run by their cognitive, intellectual processes. I think this is maybe a biproduct of the predominance of science becoming the overwhelming methodology of approaching how to think about things. I mean that sort of highly intellectual, academic and purely cognitive kind of thinking that we are told is what drives proper rational thinking and which puts an end to the superstitious, irrational, unconscious, intuitive ways of thinking. It's interesting in that regard to note how many amazing scientific discoveries and been the result of dreams and daydreaming and intuition.

    A good place to start is to recognize the fundamental problem that we're engaged in is that we're thinking about thinking. Which then raises the important question of how best to think about thinking about thinking. The very tool used to investigate is the very thing we're investigating. It's slightly problematic I would say.

    (I'm in the middle of an intense visual migraine that not only obscures my vision but also clouds my thinking....I've edited this a bunch of times and I keep finding weird spelling and grammar errors...so hopefully it somewhat makes sense.... :) )
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
    telemnemonics likes this.
  20. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    26,377
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Hahahahahahahahahaha too true!

    Makes hyper-rational thinkers analyzing potential sub rational thinkers non-thought process processing look like poorly crafted thinking!

    I think I think how you thing therefore I am the only thinker in the thought process, while you are a fool, because I cannot think my way into your thought.

    Hard though, really hard to separate common confirmation bias (I am uncertain therefore the stove will not fit) from less common subconscious maths.

    Or maybe the high speed subconscious processing of data displayed in some individuals is well accepted, just not fully explained?

    I don't actually mean to suggest that all intuition is subconscious data processing.

    If it's a sense that the cute girl will say yes, that sort of intuition could be a mix of gambling, social skills, reading behavior etc.

    If it's a sense that it's a good time to buy some stock, that would have another set of knowns (stats/ averages/ market trends etc) that the intuitive investor uses regularly, to a point where they don't have to run a market analysis to make a decision.

    But then, practicing behavioral analysis to the point where it runs in the subconscious, why call that intuition when guitar players use a term like muscle memory, and basketball players just call it "athlete".

    Maybe because some stock brokers need to do a market analysis while others do well going with their gut?
    So are there two ends of a kinds-of-people-spectrum?

    Nature vs nurture seems to find that our nature is an essential part of the results of nurture.
    You can't make an Albert Einstein or a Michael Jordan from a person who does not have that in their nature.

    If Einstein at 16, imagining himself riding on a photon, was pioneering advanced physics beyond what the nurture institutions were teaching, then we seem to see that thinking is not all of one mind. Sorry, that we do not all think the same ways.

    Seems like Albert was using conscious rational thought though, unless that assumption is incorrect?

    If Keef is correct in claiming that he acts as an antenna, tapping into some greater musical source, that's a whole 'nother issue that gets real messy real fast, because of course everything on Earth is electro-mechanical in nature, and no tapping in is possible without a radio.

    Cool though to think that what we think we think may be less than we really think!

    Sorry your head hurts and your eyes are zapping!
     
    aging_rocker and boneyguy like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.