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Interesting observation

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by ponce, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. ponce

    ponce Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't know if such an issue had been mentioned before, but this is how I tend to explain it to myself...

    Ever since I'd built that guitar (ash body, maple neck with ebony fretboard - scratch build) I didn't have greater issues with its neck. Usual neck relief, which tended to increase in dry conditions. I'd adjust the truss rod and it was ok. Every now and then I'd wipe off the ebony fretboard with some olive oil on cloth.
    The other day I used a silicone oil in spray form on the body to give it some shine and protection. It also repels dust accumulation due antistatic properties. I also sprayed it onto the fretboard and let it soak, then wiped off the rest.
    Today I picked up the guitar only to discover slight fret buzz in lower positions. I looked at the neck and there was it - a slight back bow! I hadn't touched the truss rod for months, and there hadn't been a change of weather conditions.
    It seems that silicone oil that soaked into the fretboard loosened fibres of the ebony in a pretty wide extent. But I only had to loosen the truss rod to get it right again.
    Now, it might be that ebony tends to shrink more than rosewood in drier conditions and that its less oily, but I never had thought that this could have such an effect. I guess it could be used for some stubborn warped necks even with rosewood?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  2. 8livesleft

    8livesleft TDPRI Member

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    First time I've heard of olive oil and silicone oil for fretboards. So maybe there's some kind of reaction going on there with tye weather or something?

    The one I use is called fretjuice or fret sauce. Not sure what it's made of tho.

    Sent from my ASUS_X01BDA using Tapatalk
     
  3. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I use rosewood oil. Twice a year. Works great and smells fanastic.
     
  4. Milspec

    Milspec Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I have only use woodwind bore oil on fret boards. I don't trust anything else and certainly not silicone based products. That said, I really doubt that they caused the shift unless you really soaked it down.
     
  5. jrblue

    jrblue Friend of Leo's

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    Silicone is terrible and problematic and does not belong on musical instruments, period. Yes, it shines. Yes, it repels all kinds of stuff, including stuff you do not ant to repel, like finish and glue. I didn't think anyone was still selling guitar products with silicone. As for the change in relief, while it seems unlikely that the spraying caused it, short of another explanation I'd guess that the wood was drier than it looked and that the spray had a bigger effect than usual and may have fostered some movement. Read about silicone polishes and products -- you'll want to chuck yours.
     
  6. ponce

    ponce Tele-Afflicted

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    Link please...
     
  7. hopdybob

    hopdybob Tele-Afflicted

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    i use rustin Danish Oil for all fretboards.
    1 its a good penetrating oil
    2 it has some wax into it.

    that last one helps to seal/close the wood and make it less sticky for dust like other oils can
     
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  8. BryMelvin

    BryMelvin Friend of Leo's

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    Silicone is problematic if you ever intend to refinish your guitar. It is possible that anything adding moisture can make wood swell and adjustments to change.

    If you ever decide to use Acoustic guitars NEVER use silicone products on it. It will make simple things like re-gluing a bridge or brace nearly impossible.

    No reference for that. Just 40 years of repairing instruments.
     
  9. ecoast

    ecoast Tele-Holic

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    bore oil...if at all
     
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  10. ponce

    ponce Tele-Afflicted

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    I never apply silicone oil to bare wood except rosewood and ebony and I've never had issues with it interfering with a finish or other parts of a guitar. This guitar is my 3rd build from scratch and a classical is on the way. I've done nitro, poly, Tru Oil, french polish finishes already and I think I have some feeling for and an intuition about materials and procedures (being a dentist in a daily life, p.s. I don't play PRS ,:lol:) . And I've had good experiences with silicone oil in some restricted applications.
    Since I've discovered that it doesn't dry out or degrade after a long period of time I just thought that It could have a positive effect on the ebony fretboard stability during temperature and moisture changes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  11. dan40

    dan40 Tele-Afflicted

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  12. Dismalhead

    Dismalhead Poster Extraordinaire

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    I use mineral oil, mainly because someone gave me two big bottles for free. I just looked it up and some people say olive oil will go rancid. I think some common fretboard oils that work are mineral oil, lemon oil, linseed oil.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  13. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    .

    olive oil will go rancid and becomes sticky. Many olive oils are secretly mixes with canola/etc oils and part of the reason for the stickiness.
    Many lemon oils are really mineral oil with lemon scent.
    Linseed oil ... tends to set soaked rags on fire -- do you want to Jimi H your guitar with wet linseed oil?
    Mineral oil works great on end-grain kitchen cutting boards to seal them.

    .
     
  14. hippychip

    hippychip Tele-Meister

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    I use Almond oil or Walnut oil on bare wood fretboards. I use Olive oil for cooking, and Silicone for the tires & weather stripping on my cars so I have them around, but neither of them have any use on a guitar :(
     
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  15. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    You're not listening to some very valuable advice you're being given. Neither of the posters you've responded to on this issue have said there is a problem with applying silicone-based products after your build is complete if you never, ever have to do any subsequent modifications to any of the glue joints or the finish.
    But if you ever, ever do you'll be hosed. And it sounds like your neck isn't appreciating the silicone much as it is.
    Many lutherie shops will simply not allow any product containing any silicone into the shop. I recall the near terror with which I applied the silicone sealant to the pipe joints on my dust collection system when I set it up in my shop. If I'd had a good idea of another product I could have used I'd have jumped on it. As it was, I gloved up and made sure not one molecule of that crap was allowed to migrate into the rest of my "zone."
    You said you never apply silicone to unfinished wood but then you say you put it on an ebony fretboard. Ebony Fretboards are almost always unfinished, just the bare wood.

    If you insist on a "link" just do a search for the issues of silicone with guitar finishes. But there's really no point in it - at this point, the damage is done. You've got a neck that used to be OK and is now acting weird and a body you can probably never do any touch ups to in the future. Please take a good listen to the friends who are trying to help you.

    I hope I don't sound like I have my "Grumpy Old Man" vibe on too bad tonight but please hear me and the other fellows trying to help: silicone is the devil when it comes to guitar finishes.

    Take care Brother,
    Rex
     
  16. hopdybob

    hopdybob Tele-Afflicted

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    clothed rags with Danish oil can to, but even bandage with full of medical creme can.

    when i read lemon oil than i always think on how lemon juice can bite in an open wound. so if it bites, i don't know how to explain it in english very well, but something aggressive will damage the structure
    you have cleaners with lemon that remove grease, somehow the combo with fretboards does not appeal to me
     
  17. ponce

    ponce Tele-Afflicted

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    No problem, I'll take note for the future. Maybe the stuff I used is not a high quality product (it was cheap, probably more mineral spirits than silicone), so I never had issues with adhesives and paintjob in my working enviroment. But, nevertheless, I'll take your advice in consideration. Thanx
     
  18. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    Thanks, I'm glad you didn't take that rant of mine badly. I read back over it just now and it does sound overly harsh.
    Good luck with getting the current issue sorted out.
    Rex
     
  19. ponce

    ponce Tele-Afflicted

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    It's ok, better to be safe than sorry. I've never thought so much about the extreme anti adhesive properties of the silicon spray, I considered it more or less similar to other oils such as mineral spirits, which I use regularly when doing the french polishing.
    There is no damage to the neck at this point. I think I'd kind of dried out the ebony board using naphta for string cleaning on almost a daily basis. Adding moisture straightened it out now. And this silicone product I used for several years now (on that guitar), every now and then, and I've done touch ups (even whole new layers of paint and lacquer) to both body and neck without any problems. I guess I had more luck than sense in that case.
     
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