interesting experience: game of thrones and lord of the rings

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by thunderbyrd, May 11, 2021.

  1. thunderbyrd

    thunderbyrd Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    over the past 2-3 weeks, i rewatched Game of Thrones, then over the past couple of days, rewatched Lord of the Rings.

    i much preferred Lord of the Rings. GoT is entertaining. it is also drenched in cruelty and every miserable thing humans might conceivably do to each other. we follow the story arch of a person who wants to rule and make the world a better place but succumbs to ego and is killed and the world is left to a handful of people who will most likely turn it back into the same mess it was before.

    LotR depicts the end of an age. goodness and love have won over incredible evil. we are not shown much of the new age to come, but we see that it starts well.

    these small thoughts. what do you say?
     
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  2. TeleTex82

    TeleTex82 Friend of Leo's

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    Lord of the Rings is a whole other level.
     
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  3. skradlee

    skradlee Tele-Meister

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    It's impossible for me to rewatch GoT and enjoy it knowing the last season just s***s the bed the way it does.
     
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  4. buster poser

    buster poser Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    100% agreed. Wife and I were just talking about this the other day when the press shots for the new show dropped. I couldn't be less interested, the entire IP is basically ruined for me.

    I came to GoT late after four seasons of urging from my wife, and thought it was a perfection of some very imperfect books (I couldn't get through the first two). In the last "two" seasons, it became painfully obvious the showrunners were in over their heads without source material, and it also unmasked Martin as a great storyteller, if not a great writer.

    It was like D&D were rushing to hurry up and get to those Star Wars movies, and they hosed it so bad they lost that gig. "HA ha" --Nelson

    TLDR: GoT ain't a pimple on the butt of LotR.

    Trivia: George RR Martin lives here, funds a lot of stuff I love about this town, and apparently shops on the southside with us working class folk. My old man's spotted him twice in the last year at our Albertson's grocery.
     
  5. thunderbyrd

    thunderbyrd Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    yes, there is that, too.
     
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  6. TeleTex82

    TeleTex82 Friend of Leo's

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    The Last Kingdom is worth checking out if you like GOT and LOTR.
     
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  7. beanluc

    beanluc Tele-Holic

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    Seen one dragon, seen'em all.

    No offense, thunderbyrd.
     
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  8. stonetone7

    stonetone7 Tele-Holic

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    Just a reminder: The TV version of GoT is not the real GoT.

    Same with the LOTR movies, though to a much lesser extent.
     
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  9. Dismalhead

    Dismalhead Poster Extraordinaire

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. jvin248

    jvin248 Doctor of Teleocity

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    .

    LOTRs is based around WWII and written shortly after. After the Allies defeated Mordor. So there is hope at the end.

    GOT is based around The War Of The Roses, and is incomplete. Another book or two left to finish the tale. Written to be 'grimdark' and with gray characters.
    The tv show is not the real story.

    .
     
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  11. dogmeat

    dogmeat Friend of Leo's

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    yeah... GoT.... I watched part of the first season then figured it out. you get to like a character and they kill him off. the bad guys win pretty much every time
     
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  12. PhoenixBill

    PhoenixBill Tele-Meister

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    Yet Tolkien specifically said it was not, though many people can see similarities.
     
  13. sk25

    sk25 Tele-Meister

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    Game of Thrones is at least as much (if not moreso) about subverting common fantasy tropes and shocking the readers as it is about the story or a message. In my opinion, this cheapens it to the point where it just doesn't have the 'timeless' feel LOTR has developed over the years. I enjoyed the books, but every last character I actually liked is (predictably) dead now, so...do I really want to read more books about terrible people doing terrible things to other terrible people? Not really.

    One thing I've found in fiction is when an author overly focuses on a certain aspect of writing, the story itself suffers. I don't read fiction for the message/to be preached at, or to see the author show off how clever they are (tiresome focus on narrative tricks or an endless parade of subversions of expectations...when this takes over the story tends to become stilted or feel forced) or to see what theme the author pulled out of a hat that day (looking at you, Terry Goodkind). I read it for the story, the setting, the characters. GOT is not about these; it's about breaking all the characters and reveling in their destruction. If Martin wasn't such a good storyteller, I wouldn't have any interest in it at all.
     
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  14. Ess Eff

    Ess Eff Tele-Afflicted

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    One based in reality, the other a children's fairytale.

    We all luv a fairytale.
    .
     
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  15. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

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    An aspect of GoT that I found extremely refreshing (having both read the books and watched the show) is that the old achingly boring pattern of "develop a cool main character, usually a major actor, for the audience to identify with, knowing they are invincible no matter how bad things get" is completely torn away, which enables an audience to now experience the full range of emotions while watching the story unfold -- you don't know what's going to happen or who is going to survive one moment to the next. You know... like reality. I've always felt invincible characters were boring.
    But killing off main characters is not normally practical for shows, because they sign a big name to play the big parts, and then you don't want to kill them off. But... if you do, you give your audience a gift... now they realize that *anything* can happen, and it becomes more compelling, and they can really fear for the lives of their favorite characters. GoT broke the model that people were used to, and I loved it. Also, I noticed that after GoT, I started seeing more shows dip their toes in the water as far as killing big characters.

    You can't really compare the two, GoT and LotR, in the context of which is "better". You can only say which you liked more. They are too different in theme and purpose.
     
  16. Believer

    Believer Tele-Meister

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    Tolkien was a veteran of WWI, not WW2. He survived the trenches, and saw many of his friends die during the conflict. The Hobbit and LOTR were written initially to entertain his nieces and nephews. Both contain strong themes of Conservation, Luddism, and Christianity. Tolkien was writing about the negatives of the 2nd Industrial Revolution, especially in LOTR. I read 2 1/2 volumes of George RR Martin's Song of Fire and Ice, until I got sick of it. I read fiction as an escape FROM reality. If I want meaningless sex and murder, I read history books.
     
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  17. Lawdawg

    Lawdawg Tele-Afflicted

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    Exactly! Other than being set in fantasy worlds, LotR and GoT have almost nothing in common stylistically or thematically. Personally I wouldn't want to be deprived of either as they are both immensely satisfying works.

    For me, LotR is the pinnacle of modern high fantasy and there's really nothing else that comes close. The rich detail and mythology of Tolkien's world and the poetic beauty of his language never gets old and is why I still enjoy reading LotR every several years. That said, like most high fantasy, the characters are largely flat and one-dimensional and while beautiful LotR doesn't connect with my on any emotional level.

    GoT is something entirely different and is operating on a completely different wavelength. I can certainly understand why GoT isn't everyone's cup of tea, but the notion that GoT is just about terrible people doing terrible things could not be further from the truth. The characters GoT are complicated and messy and above all human. As a result, the acts of heroism, sacrifice and bravery in GoT are far more impactful and effecting than anything in LotR.
     
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  18. Dan German

    Dan German Doctor of Teleocity

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    GoT as a whole is not a great story. (Disclaimer: I haven’t watched the whole thing, and I couldn’t get very far in the books). I will grant that the TV series is comprised of a lot of really interesting small stories, and some great acting, but for me it doesn’t hang together as a whole. Even putting aside the fact that it’s derivative even in a derivative genre, there is an underlying sense of the author sitting there thinking “ooh, and what if I have this guy do this!”
     
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  19. Drak

    Drak Tele-Afflicted

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    Thought this was gonna wind up like watching The Wizard of Oz while listening to The Dark Side of the Moon...kinda...thing...
     
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  20. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

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    Totally agree. One of the constant lessons played out was that the characters were not intrinsically good or bad, they had varying degrees of both, and some were drawn from one to the other through their experiences. I especially enjoyed Tyrion’s evolving character.

    Saying it doesn’t hang together as a whole after admitting you didn’t get far in the books, or finish the show… well no wonder. It’s an epic, with big moving pieces. That’s like watching one third of a movie then saying the movie had a lot of loose ends.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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