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Incoming: '64 RI Bound for Projects

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by EsquireOK, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    That's rather alarmist.

    A body/neck/bridge swap is not to "butcher" anything. Neither is a nicely done spray-over finish in the "correct" material to simulate a Fender factory refin done in the '60s. Neither will the results be any old "Frankenstein." They'll still be high quality real Fender parts, nothing ugly, monstrous, or patched together about the two resulting guitars. They'll be totally seamless, with only detail-oriented hobbyists like myself knowing that they aren't stock. And you seemed to have missed that the Page can always be returned to stock and sold (not that I ever will, but speaking theoretically), and I'll be left with a beautiful Dakota Red AV '64 (possibly the only one in existence).

    But as you correctly pointed out, to each their own. So when you get a Page Tele and an AV '64, feel free to leave them alone, and I will gladly support that decision.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
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  2. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    FWIW, and in keeping with all the Apollo 11 talk, "The Eagle has landed."

    The thing is in solidly near mint condition. Plastic still on the guard, all case candy completely untouched/unwrapped, case tag still on the case. Unbelievable that this guy sold it for so little! A little rubbing and dulling on the back of the neck, and just a few areas of the same around the edges...but no chips, dings, depressions, etc. Perfect candidate for an overspray, because the prep will be almost nothing.

    2016 AV '64 on the left – 2019 Page Mirror on the right. Had to pop off a cel phone shot very quickly before dusk, so pardon the tomatoes in the background; I had to go outside for light.

    IMG_3594.JPG

    As you can see, the finishes are quite different, hence the body swap being beneficial for both guitars IMO. The AV body is more accurate for a '50s Tele, while the Page's body is more accurate for a '60s Tele – right down to vintage-similar types of sealer coats on each (after the swap). The Page's rosewood is darker (not sure if this is across both lines or just normal rosewood variation). Perhaps you can't see, but the Page's neck tint is also just slightly more yellow. And, of course, the Page is a slab board, while the '64 is Round-Lam (I have no preference, but I like having a reissue of each type, just as a hobbyist).

    One thing I forgot to mention is that I will also be removing the Page's stock .060" guard and replacing with a vintage-correct .080" guard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
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  3. dreamingtele

    dreamingtele Friend of Leo's

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    That page tele color is beautiful! I love that it's white! Though when it turns to a banana color yellow when it gets old, like a Squier Standard tele, I tend to dislike it, but when it ages a bit more and turning into a beautiful butterscotch blonde thats has bit more orange tint, I love it, but when it gets darker butterscotch, I hate it again. LOL..

    Congrats on the AV64! I wanted one too! but in Fiesta Red, LPB or Shell Pink if ever those colors exists back in 64..

    I kind of feel that its a waste of money to re-spray such a really nice guitar, but I get you, I actually want to buy the CS Fender tele shoreline gold in one of the shops here but put on a CS Fender rosewood neck on it from Stratosphere because I dont like maple necks.. Its just one of those things that you make it the way you want it and you dont care about the cost, but the feeling after you've done it feels like every cent is worth it.
     
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  4. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    I think a can of ReRanch lacquer is something like $15 plus shipping. We're talking a $40 or $50 re-paint project, at the very most, if I need two cans (I am going to try hard to get away with just one). Won't cost much.

    I agree that the white blonde is really the looker in the world of blonde Teles. Once they go yellow, I don't dig 'em so much. Even the stock AV '64 color is a bit far for me.
     
  5. wyclif

    wyclif Tele-Afflicted

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    These are one of the best models Fender has made in the modern FMIC era, I wager.

    I wouldn't change a thing. That finish is beautiful as-is. Mike Bloomfield would approve!
     
  6. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    I have noticed something a bit odd about this Tele. The neck sits at least 1/16" (maybe more) lower than where it "should." The pickguard goes up over about half of the fretboard dots' width. As a result, the whole setup feels "wrong." Strings sit way too close to the body, and saddles are way low. Gonna have to shim it for sure. I'll probably take the opportunity to introduce a noticeable neck angle, rather than using a simple straight full-pocket shim.

    Board is very low in the pocket. Either a thin neck or a deep pocket.

    IMG_3599.JPG

    Very low saddles with very protuberant adjustment screws:

    IMG_3600.JPG

    Here are similar pix from the Page.

    The neck doesn't actually seem to be any higher off the deck than the AV '64. Part of why the dots are so covered up is the approx. .040" difference in the heights of the the pick guards, obviously. But even so, I've never seen that before. Another part seems to be that the Round-Lam board is far thicker than any vintage example of a Round-Lam I've seen in person (or in pix, for that matter). That would cause the dots to be positioned lower. But you can see the huge difference in string height, hopefully. The low E on the AV '64 sits below the lip of the bridge plate, while the low E on the Page sits well above it. It has to be a slightly back angled neck rout on the AV '64.

    579D9E68-7E92-4FA7-9045-D376F59C7EEF.jpeg

    34FC0034-49D3-4FFA-8989-1F9FF7DB1C25.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  7. Southpole

    Southpole Tele-Holic

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    I’m not that familiar with the Page Telecaster. There seem to be two versions, one with a dragon and one with round mirrors. Did you remove the mirrors or is yours another type of Page Tele?
     
  8. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    The mirrors are not affixed out of the factory. They come as part of the "case candy" (and you can bet your ass hardly anyone will be putting them on). I saw at least one dealer put them on. D'oh! Something tells me they're going to regret that.

    Without the mirrors, it's very similar to what a late '59–'60 AVRI would have been if it had existed (but it happens to have a signature on the back of the head and a special neck plate, which can be easily replaced). That would make it very similar to the long-lived '62 AVRI. But there are a few things that make it different.

    - The neck profile is unique (a nice medium D, i.e. a C with a little bit of shoulder)

    - It has a slab board like the old AVRI '62s, but these can't be had on a non-CS reissue these days. Standard line American reissues went to Round-Lam starting in late 2012, with the introduction of the AV line, and this continued into the current AO line.

    - It has unique pickups (can't buy them separately – at least not yet).

    - Comes with the string through and top-load feature, which wasn't a combination used for all that long (and I like having the option; I am digging top load, actually).

    - The finish, as my picture illustrates, is a whiter blonde than Fender usually puts out on their American reissues (it's actually closer to the whiter '60s blondes when they were fresh – one reason I will be doing the body swap).

    - The case is the nicer clear-coated tweed version that most American reissues don't include (they come with non-lacquered tweed). Almost the same case came with my AV '54 reissue 60th Anniversary Strat (the only difference is that that Page's case has a side pocket, while the 60th AV Strat has a center pocket). I love it.

    - Comes with a "stained glass" strap and good quality coiled cable.

    - The dots are not that "pre-aged" tan color, as they were on the AV Series, and continue to be on the AO Series. Nor are they the stark white of the earlier AVRI and Vintage Series guitars. They are a nice slightly dingy grayish white, like the fiberboard dots looked when they were brand new.

    - The neck lacquer has a slightly yellower tint than the AVs and AOs (which used totally clear lacquer), but nowhere near that heavy yellow that the AVRI and Vintage Series guitars had from the early '80s all the way to late 2012. It's tasteful yellowing – right at the point beyond which I wouldn't like it.

    Basically, all that stuff except for the case is within the realm of a regular '59–'60 Tele, as long as you aren't viewing it from the back (i.e. as long as the signature isn't visible). All these are the reasons I got it, not because of the Page connection (not to mention that I got it for 20 percent off standard retail price – less than the AVs were when new). To me, it's just a very sweet reissue of a very cool period of Teles that is generally not reissued, and the Page thing is just incidental.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  9. Southpole

    Southpole Tele-Holic

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    That makes sense, I wouldn’t bother with the mirrors either! Good thing they are optional. The other specs sound good.

    I have a 62 AVRI in Olympic White, yet another type of white finish.
     
  10. sonny wolf

    sonny wolf Friend of Leo's

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    It's your guitar so at the end of the day it's your call but I think it is a pity to mess with what is now a somewhat rare guitar (since it is a discontinued model).If you want a red 60s style Tele I'd prefer to buy parts and build one and respect the integrity of your 64.
     
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  11. Fendereedo

    Fendereedo Poster Extraordinaire

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    They're your guitars at the end of the day. Personally I think they look amazing! Many happy hours playing them both.
     
  12. Southpole

    Southpole Tele-Holic

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    How’s that Dakota Red refin coming along?
     
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  13. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    Haven't pulled anything apart yet. I've just been playing them as they are. I've been being very careful not to blemish the AV '64 before the overspray, so I don't have to do any prep on it other than wiping it off. It was really in like-mint condition when I got it.

    FWIW, here is something that is kind of like what the Page will look like. This is an original 1960 Dakota Red Esquire.

    3.jpg

    That said, I've also been thinking about Inca Silver or Lake Placid Blue...though LPB is very typical and not one of my favorites, and I already have an Inca Silver Jazz Bass build in the works.
     
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  14. Iago

    Iago Friend of Leo's

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    Really cool guitars, EsquireOK. How do the '64RI and the Page compare tone wise?
     
  15. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    I have not set them up identically, so there might be some differences in pickup height and string type that would cause differences in tone that could easily be equalized with a little work.

    I put 9s on my Page not long after getting it. It's my only guitar with straight 9s all the way across. I have one other Tele with 9s on top and 10s on the bottom, and some guitars with 10s, but most have 11s. So the Page's setup at the moment is something new for me (I am enjoying it, though).

    All that being said, as they stand right now, the AV '64 has a little bit "thicker" of a sound. It's a little more middy, growly, and warm...yet also lower in output. The Page is thinner and colder in tone, but louder, in an aggressive and "scrappy" sounding way. (But like I said, it has skinny strings on it.)

    FWIW, I kept the Page top loaded when I put the new strings on, so that's another setup difference between the two.

    My instinct is telling me that the Page set is likely just a Pure Vintage '58 set with an overwound bridge pickup. But perhaps the neck pickup is a little different too. I will at least get some DC resistance readings when I do the big swap, but I don't have a gauss meter, so I won't be able to examine any differences the magnets might have.

    I will tell you this: The Page naturally settles in to first-album-esque Zeppelin tones without a lot of coaxing. It's a great sound.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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  16. Southpole

    Southpole Tele-Holic

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    One of my favourite modern Teles (2015) is the American Standard with channel bound neck. This only came in two colours - Sonic Blue and Dakota Red. Mine is Sonic Blue but I’ve always wanted Dakota Red! Just like I’ve always wanted a black 62AVRI to pair with my white one.
     
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  17. Clifton C

    Clifton C Tele-Afflicted

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    Lake Placid Blue is my favorite Fender color! But Dakota Red is also a great color. Either way, you can't go wrong!
     
  18. toomuchfun

    toomuchfun Tele-Afflicted

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    Very interesting thread but I'm a little confused.

    I can tell you're a true Telecaster fan as many of us are. But the comments about doing the stamping and overspray like Fender did as well as a pick guard swap due to .020 thickness difference is the part what confuses me. And then the comment about you may then have the only '64 AV with a Dakota Red body is what prompted my post.

    I could see if you got the custom shop to do this for you, but to me if you paint the body it's an no longer an original Fender. It may be like they did it back then but with new wood and new paint by a non professional (sorry if I have that wrong). If it's just an obsession you need to fulfill more power to you but it almost sounds like you want to fool someone.

    I have a '56 that the only original parts are a refinished body, refretted neck, neck plate and some hardware. With modern pick ups it still sounds better than my other stock Telecasters (8 from '73 to '89). I think the wood is a big factor too.

    They are 2 great looking guitars and you have a plan, hope it works for you. It just confuses an old fart like me.
     
  19. jpjr50

    jpjr50 Tele-Holic

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    Whoa, love that color and nice to rosewood neck (my favorite). That thing is gorgeous.
     
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  20. Iago

    Iago Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks for the details about the setup and everything - that's really significant indeed. I got a very similar feeling from the demos of the Page Tele: loud with really aggressive, bright pickups.
     
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