In tune but open chords are "oscillating" . . .

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by Nahtabot, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Nahtabot

    Nahtabot Tele-Holic

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    . . . is this the result of not so perfect intonation? My Tele has a 3 saddle compensated bridge.

    It sounds like maybe one note is the culprit.
     
  2. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Doctor of Teleocity

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    Figure out which note is to blame.

    Figure out what's wrong with the note.

    Could be out of tune, could be intonation, could be a bad or worn out string.
     
  3. Stefanovich

    Stefanovich Tele-Holic

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    Could also be the nut. If the action is too high at the nut, your lower fret notes will be slightly sharp.
     
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  4. Nahtabot

    Nahtabot Tele-Holic

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    I'm going to lesson my grip. I'm re-learning things after a long affair with woodwinds.

    The 6105 frets are quite different for me.
     
  5. Thebluesman

    Thebluesman Tele-Holic

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    One can only intonate /adjust the intonation with ACCURACY/PRECISION.. using NEW STRINGS(After they have stabilized!)-BECAUSE...Old/aged strings WILL/do/ALL WAYS.. give false indications!=Chase your tail to the sea. There is no shortcut.
     
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  6. GoldDeluxe5E3

    GoldDeluxe5E3 Tele-Afflicted

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    Try This:
     
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  7. Thebluesman

    Thebluesman Tele-Holic

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    The gtr can be adjusted to suit your FRET HAND GRIP. Which is INSTINCTIVELY applied and...CANNOT be changed on the fly!!.Look specifically to /FOCUS upon the gtr set up to RESOLVE the issue(s)
     
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  8. Tylercaster

    Tylercaster Tele-Meister

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    Want to hear a funny story?

    A neighbor guitar player friend of mine called me and asked me to come over because him amp was making a random intermittent "oscillating" sound. I went over and indeed it was. And then I noticed the shape of his room and the way the amp was pointed: right at his ceiling fan! We turned the ceiling fan off, problem solved. I know its crazy, but very true!
     
  9. Thebluesman

    Thebluesman Tele-Holic

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    the lower the Action[string height] is made, the MORE ACCURATE the intonation will be=Lesser string travel 'distance' between the underside of the string to the fret top! (a low[e r] action).A higher action...''More'' distance now in string travel(just because)AND...one must still consider the fret hand(its ''NATURAL'' grip applied) & the fret finger strength(instinctively applied)Both combine[e d] =the guitar set up its adjustments can/should/enable/cater for this etc. There IS more to setting up any gtr to suit every players ''musical preferences'' than simply turning screws & applying GUESSWORK.=Lack of understanding. YOUTUBE/& similar.. is full of W/E gtr technicians & more.
     
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  10. thebowl

    thebowl Tele-Meister

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    The pickups are too high, if I understand the facts.
     
  11. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    So hold your open G chord and tune to that. It should sound real good. Then check what that did to the tuning on individual strings.
     
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  12. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    How about the guitar doesn't tune properly, EVER, it is a 12edo instrument and that tuning has different nodes making notes sound different but still in tune.

    As a lead blues player on the guitar, 12edo is homebase and other variances are dealt with by bends. Bend that bend up, but a mirror image of bends that go down, whammy, push string toward the bridge to flatten a tone,, or bending the neck. I'm talking about a very small bend of just a cent or two, three cents difference between a ji maj 3rd and a 12edo maj 3rd, that's noticeable, mostly in an emotive way, ji sounds beautiful.

    In 12et tuning pitches are sort of "rounded off". Doing that takes the tuning away from "just Intonation" which can be tuned perfectly with no noticable beats. But it only works in one key such the Canon in D, they mean "just Intonation D", it sounds pretty bad in other keys. Guitar and piano being more or less fixed pitch instruments sound bad with a good orchestra tuned in ji D.

    Anyway guitarists fix these intonation tweaks in amazing ways, on the fly. It is so much of what a soulful player does, playing with intonation for tonal reasons. Both tunings sound good, but mixed by a good guitar player in play is something special, maybe to guitarists although blues harps live in this mixed pit h world. If you can't do it you sound bland to robot.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  13. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's probably one of two things:

    The G string is too high in the nut.

    The neck pickup is too close to the strings. Even when you're not using the neck pickup, the nagnetic field can 'capture' the strings and create false harmonic nodes causing all kinds of weirdness. Strats usually suffer from this the most, but it can happen with any guitar that has a neck pickup.

    Unless a guitar player is a shredder type that plays a lot up the neck, I usually dial in the intonation around the 5th fret. Try it. Even if it doesn't work for you, you can always put it back to the original intonation settings.
     
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  14. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    So...


    Here's the deal, the Oscillation. If if it's a matter of tuning/intonation it will go away with tweaking on any chord. What I mean is.. play an open G chord and tune to that chord to get it just right to your ear. If you do that and there is still funny-ness there's a magnetic field issue down near the pickups.

    If you get the G perfect sounding, and everything else is awful you just need to a little tweaking of your setup and tuning. It won't ever be perfectly perfect (contrary to many false claims) but any guitar can be set up well enough to get in the ball park of what you're used to hearing.


    Don't bother following any tuning "fix" you read about online, there's about 10+ factors that effect how your personal guitar/strings intonate and they are not universal to guitars in general. Every guitar/setup is a different story.
     
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  15. hepular

    hepular Tele-Afflicted

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    liar's paradox alert . . .
     
  16. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    Oh yeah?


    Sucker born every minute, I hate to inform you I did pitch/tuning analysis across instrumentations/pedagogy in University as part of my major. I've DSP pitch mapped a mountain of instruments going back and every once in a while I pitch map guitars too. I had to do this research to write programs in C-Sound and MAX/MSP for professional use/analysis in the academic composer's world. I've forgotten more than I know about tuning/intonation systems.


    If you want a primer on how guitar intonation works I'll link to a little post I did on the LPF for some confused folks, starting on post #170:

    https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?214135-les-pauls-can-t-be-tuned/page5



    There is no intonation sorcery. Every string on a straight plain intonates differently across the board based on gauge, wind type, nut height, action angle, temperature, et cetera. So many factors...
     
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  17. Collin D Plonker

    Collin D Plonker Tele-Afflicted

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    What's with the capital letters? It's kinda hard to read.
     
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  18. hepular

    hepular Tele-Afflicted

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    Cool. But. You posted something related to tuning/setup solutions on the internet discouraging people from using tuning solutions on the internet. So perhaps in all of your analysis you didn't get to this: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liar-paradox/
     
  19. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    Giving readers the ability to have multiple lines of information and discern for themselves is the entire premise of scholarship.

    Notice I didn't give a "solution" other than common sense...set up your guitar and analyze/hear each one on it's own, that's not a specific solution. I simply cautioned to stay away from supposed solutions you read about or get sold on to buy a product and for good reason.



    If I offered a one size fits all "solution" then yes, it would be a paradox.
     
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  20. Guy Guyatone

    Guy Guyatone TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    A simple no-cost way to experiment with an intonated nut is to get a piece of stripped #12 solid copper wire (like you wire houses with) snip off two pieces about 3/16th long and insert them next to your nut under the 3rd and 6th strings. I noticed that the open versus barre chords sound more in tune with each other. YMMV.
     
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