im sorry but 12 watts is not "way too loud"

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by surfoverb, May 18, 2015.

  1. RedRock

    RedRock Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    911
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Location:
    Nevada
    IMHO, I believe the point was that different playing situations call
    for different wattage amps.
     
  2. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,390
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Location:
    Virginia
    ooooh i just thought why do I need 2 x 10"?
    a 1x12" closed back cab would be plenty louder.

    what about an epi valve jr cab? it has a 12" eminence lady luck
    speaker (whatever that is)
    these are ubiquitous on CL
    and cheap
     
  3. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,390
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Location:
    Virginia
    i dont know!

    It sounds like a tweed deluxe to me
    but then when the vape is engaged (number 1 make it so)
    it sounds like a marshal :?:
    (the vape just bypasses all pots and uses all power
    its kind of useless actually)


    I think, but hope not Fender just stuck a Blues Jr into a weird cab
    and called it a day. But! It sounds really good! I never heard a *Blues Jr sound really anything, and rarely good.






    *this amp has many fans, and others can make them sound great-just not me
     
  4. Abu Twangy

    Abu Twangy Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,102
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Location:
    Philly
    The speakers in the Vaporizer are like the speaker in the brown Excelsior and the Ramparte. They serve their basic purpose but there are better out there if you want to spend the money. I always thought the Vape would sound better (and louder) with a pair of Eminence 1058s but "Voxy" tone doesn't come to mind.

    If you need more volume from an amp at a gig, you can mic it. I once played a concert using a tweed Bronco--basically a Frontman 15. Of course I had to aim the speaker right at my head. Not something I'd want to do on a regular basis, though.

    Forty five years ago I would have used my Twin Reverb.
     
  5. tele12

    tele12 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,530
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Location:
    NY
    I don't think a 1x12 would be louder than a 2x10 with similar efficient speakers.
     
  6. Cleeve

    Cleeve Tele-Holic

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    995
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    The stock speakers in the Vaporizer are pretty good- They are the least of it's problems!
    The reverb pan mount and unforgivably cheap RCA cable connecting the reverb pan to the chassis were the emergency needs my Vaporizer had.

    The other thing I had to deal with was the way the power tube retainer was pulling the el84 tubes to one side or the other, bending the pins and stressing things.. So I just removed that mess.

    It's a hybrid- uses op amp for reverb send and return, and maybe for the first preamp stages, I'd have to check, it does use tubes where it counts though, driver and output.
     
  7. Mrbob135

    Mrbob135 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,010
    Joined:
    May 21, 2014
    Location:
    Franklin, VT
    I would think a SM57 could make it louder :)
     
  8. BBill64

    BBill64 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,896
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I actually would prefer less sensitive speakers in my Vaporizer because the low end really improves when the volume control is up to 12-2 o'clock, but then it's a tad too loud for most of my applications. I think the JJs I put in the power section might have given it a bit of a loudness boost, I'm not sure
     
  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    34,341
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    +1 with TPrior on the correct amp for the venue and style. +1 withMrbob135 on a good mic.

    As for speakers for the Vaporizer? Eminence....Legend ALK 102 or Legend 1058. EV Force 10's if you can find them.
     
  10. Johnny Cache

    Johnny Cache Former Member

    Posts:
    1,809
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Location:
    Oregon
    Cheap amp cheap results. Sure better speakers will help, but that's only part of the problem. It could be your expectations were greater than the amp could offer.

    On the other hand, I can gig with a 12 watt amp as do many other players. For example, Princeton Reverbs are 12 watts and only one 10" speaker but I would bet there are 100's of guys on here that gig with one.

    Maybe part of the problem is you're trying to play too loud or you need to find a drummer that can play at lower volume.
     
  11. Lowbassnotes

    Lowbassnotes Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,004
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Location:
    Pacific Rim USA
    I have a 2x10 cabinet with eminence 10516's. 75 watt speakers, sensitivity is 100. When I plug my PR into them it makes it seem a whole lot louder.
     
  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    34,341
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    This is the point I was trying to make about speaker sensitivity, and lowbassnotes' experience is why I suggested that the only accurate comparison of an any two amplifiers' comparable output volumes can be done by testing the amps with the same speakers on the different amps.
    One can double the output of an amp by increasing the sensitivy of a speaker by 6 db. To do that with output power one would have to increase the power in watts by tenfold. That is, to achieve twice the output volume of an 18 watt amp through the same speakers one would need 180 watts of power.
    So, back to the 18 watt versus 50 watt thing.....there is not anywhere near a doubling of volume there through the same speaker. So, even a small advantage...3 db... in speaker sensitivity in that 18 watt amp can yield volume that might 'bruise' (;^) a 50 watt amp.
    And...one might want to have more sophisticated test equipment than most ears will provide....a scope to ascertain maximum output before distortion and a decibel meter. Then, you get some accurate information.
     
  13. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    17,303
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    The North Coast
    All depends on what you need. I don't use an amp at my house. Can't imagine why I would. Amps are for gigging. A 12 watt amp that's quieter than a Tweed deluxe? That's not an amp, that's a toy.

    A 1 or 2 watt amp? Just get a headphone amp or a pod or something. And yeah, a Champ is a paperweight that looks like an amp.

    See? All a matter of perspective. :)
     
  14. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    10,660
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Location:
    near Arnold's
    Would you mind explaining a bit more, in lay person's terms? I have replaced the stock (tired) Oxford speaker in my SFDR and my early '60s Gibson Lancer (something Alnico-ish? but very light weight) in each case with an Eminence Cannabis Rex. I did it because the speaker sounds great to me. Good detail without icepick on the highs, non-farty lows. Nice smooth midrange.

    Anyway, I swear each amp is now seriously loud. The SDFR is at least as loud as a healthy SF Vibrolux Reverb (complete with 2x10s). The Lancer I swear is now as loud or louder than the SFDR was before the speaker swap. And the Lancer is supposedly 12-15 watts (a very close cousin to a 5(d)1 maybe?).

    Maybe my ears are tricking me. But it seems like each amp is in fact 50%-100% louder than before?

    Is it a more "powerful" speaker can get volume out of the circuit that is always present but a less "powerful" speaker can't reproduce without distorting?

    Sorry. I assume this is a really dumb question. But it would help me to understand better. If only to believe my ears.
     
  15. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,390
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Location:
    Virginia
    part of the problem is the size of the amp vs what its putting out.
    a tweed deluxe is pretty much all speaker,
    this thing the speakers are buried and surrounded

    oh and after looking at the manual the stock speakers are 16ohms
    each but the out for a cab is 8ohms

    so does that mean I need either 1 8ohm or 2 4ohm or 2 16 ohms?
    I always forget if the ohms double or half\
    stupid maths
     
  16. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,390
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Location:
    Virginia
    I didnt pay anything for this amp so cheap isnt applicable.
    and there is no problem, id just like it to be a bit louder.
    the drummer isnt the problem Im embarrassed to say
    its the keyboardist :oops:

    this amp sounds better than my hand wired tweed deluxe
    and twin reverb

     
  17. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,390
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Location:
    Virginia
    i just keep it cranked and dial the volume on the guitar down.
     
  18. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,273
    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    I played that amp at a gig once ... other guitar player had it. It was not as loud or clear as my SF Princeton Reverb. I set it on the cleanest tone I could find and it had so much breakup ... sounded like tube distortion, maybe a little speaker mush, too. You can get it louder with more efficient speakers, but Voxy? I don't know. I don't like the result of using speakers to supe up volume, it's almost always at the expense of good tone. There are some loud Eminence speakers out there, but they won't tame the tube crunch, which on that amp sounds more Pignose than Vox, IMO. Might be OK for recording. I'd get an AC15 and leave the Vaporizer at the studio.
     
  19. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,390
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Location:
    Virginia
    yea Im no fan of the vapes reverb because as you turn the volume up the reverb volume stays the same. whomever thought that was a good idea...I dunno...even if the verb were tube driven it would still have the same problem

    but! its not much an issue as you wouldnt want dripping reverb when the amp is cranked as I always have it. I used to use delay with my 5e3, but this sounds better actually.

    im pretty sure its not a hybrid amp save for the verb and the rectifier is not tube... its got 2 preamps and 2 power tubes...what else is there? the vape just bypasses the pots
     
  20. Lowbassnotes

    Lowbassnotes Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,004
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Location:
    Pacific Rim USA
    If you put 2 10" speakers in it with sensitivity around 100 or a little above my guess is you'll experience some profound volume increase. Myself I'd get 2 efficient 16 ohm 10"ers and of course you want to wire them at 8 ohms since that's what your amp wants to see.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.