1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

i'm out of phase for an unknown reason? please help

Discussion in 'Other T-Types and Partscasters' started by ben smith, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    I followed this schematic to the T, I ran a separate earth wire from the neck pickup cover to the tone pot as there were too many wires going to the volume, could this be why I am out of phase? everything is done properly? or could I have got something back to front somehow in my tired state of mind? Tele Template Import2 Wiring.jpg
     
  2. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,308
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Location:
    Wyoming panhandle
    Your grounding point is not the issue.

    Chances are your pickups are simply out of phase. Flip the black and yellow connections from the bridge pickup and all will be good. Don't flip the neck pickup's leads because the metal cover is also a shield; you need that wired in that manner to decrease noise.
     
    bender66, howardlo and ben smith like this.
  3. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    thanks very much! simple answer I like it. but sir the base plate is grounded on the bridge pickup, does this matter? thanks
     
  4. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,308
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Location:
    Wyoming panhandle
    Ah. You have a meter? Disconnect the bridge pickup's black wire and test across the black wire and the base plate. If there's no continuity, flipping the leads is no problem.

    If there is continuity between the black wire and the base plate, you'll need to break the base plate's connection to the black wire and make the connection to the yellow wire.
     
    ben smith likes this.
  5. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,721
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Location:
    East Yorkshire, England
    If the earth is separate on the neck pickup you can swap the white and the black on the neck instead
     
    Ricky D. and ben smith like this.
  6. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,040
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Location:
    UK
    I thought this was a Star Trek reference... sorry.

    Carry on.
     
    ben smith likes this.
  7. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    so i have no earth to the bridge, the base plate on the bridge pickup is my earth, can i still swap the white and black wires around? i can build things but that doesn't mean i'm the sharpest tool in the box
     
  8. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    and yes the earth on the neck is separate, i attached another wire to the actual cover itself and ran it to the tone pot, so i can swap the black and white wires on them instead?
     
  9. netgear69

    netgear69 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,736
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Location:
    england
    Is this a matched set of pickups ? maybe 1 is south and 1 is north
     
    telemnemonics and ben smith like this.
  10. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,915
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Location:
    Omaha
    The typical Star Trek response to your problem is to re-modulate your shields.
     
    ben smith likes this.
  11. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    nope not matched
     
  12. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    ey captain
     
  13. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    23,093
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Pickup makers do not agree on phase/ ground, so one brand will be out of phase (OOP) with another brand.
    For example IIRC Duncan uses the earlier vintage Fender phase while Fender reversed phase in later years, so those brands don't match in a set.
     
    howardlo and ben smith like this.
  14. netgear69

    netgear69 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,736
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Location:
    england
    That could be the problem a different polarity will give a weak out of phase sound a compass will give you a idea of the polarity
    Try a standard wiring diagram
    standard.jpg
     
    ben smith likes this.
  15. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    this has got that distinctive out of phase sound i'm positive it is out of phase, i haven't taken it apart yet but i'm sure i have just wired something wrong somehow?
     
  16. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    23,093
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    You can wire for a RWRP set or for a same polarity set.
    But the wiring will be different, or the sound will be different if using the same wiring.
    First thing to do is find out if one pickup is RWRP from the other pickup.
    you can use a compass as noted by @netgear69 to see if both pickups have the same pole magnetism on top.
    Or if you have another pickup on hand you can see if it sticks to both or repels from both, vs sticks to one and repels from the other, indicating one is RWRP of the other.

    Once you determine what you have for pickups you can search for wiring diagrams for RWRP, or for same polarity sets.

    Some of us want an RWRP because it hum cancels.

    I don't have a solution to your problem because I don';t know if you wired wrong or what polarity your pickups are.
    Note that unmatched sets may still be same polarity.
    And some matched sets are reverse polarity.

    You can wire an RWRP pickup for non reverse hookup, which pertains to RW or reverse wound, but it will still be RP or reverse polarity.

    The third part of the recipe is which end of the coil you choose to ground.
    If you reverse the hookup of one pickup, you also need to reverse which end of the winding you connect to ground.
    Since you already ran the neck pickup cover ground wire separately, that will be easier to change then the bridge pickup which has the base plate ground soldered to one end of the coil winding.
    Some players choose to run the base plate to the pot rather than directly to one of the coile ends on the pickup, so they can switch the wiring polarity of the bridge pickup.
    More often though, a Tele neck pickup comes wired with the extra ground wire to the cover for switching wiring polarity.
    There is no way to "switch" magnet polarity, but it can be reversed with a strong neodymium magnet.
     
    marabino and ben smith like this.
  17. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    both pickups are around 7k bridge is 8k I think, quit hot how i like em
     
  18. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    10,938
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    You have run a separate ground for the neck pickup cover, so you can just reverse the other two leads.
     
    ben smith and telemnemonics like this.
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    23,093
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    The resistance of the coil is part of the matched vs not matched idea, but is not related to the RWRP aspect of matched or unmatched.

    The OP said he ran a separate wire from the cover to a pot but didn't confirm whether or not the cover is connected to one or the other end of the coil at the pickup!
    You may be correct but I'm not getting the sense that he understands the wiring he did.
    From the diagram he referenced it could be that he means he grounded the wire from the end of the winding that is grounded to the cover, or saw that this grounded to the cover lead needed to connect to ground somewhere.
    But if something like a Twisted Tele neck pickup with separate cover ground wire, he may be able to change polarity in the control cavity without removing the pickup.

    We just don't have clear enough info!
     
    Ricky D. and ben smith like this.
  20. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,140
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    london
    sorry for any confusion, just to clarify i did run a separate wire from the cover to a pot, the bridge pickup is grounded by the base plate so there is no earth running to the bridge, i don't see much point in grounding the bridge twice in this case. i followed everything in the schematic otherwise, i could have simply mixed up two wires somewhere, i just thought maybe the cover had something to do with it but that's my lack of experience with a tele configuration. i'm using 500k pots also but i doubt that anything to do with it, and i prefer 500k to 250k now actually. thanks for the help i very much appreciate it
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.