If you don't ask for money, are you "busking"?

[cometazzi]

That would be in response to a ban on busking.
This is regulation of busking.
Many in the US do feel any regulation is a ban.
Then many feel banning stuff they dislike should be allowed at least by their neighborhoods.
Soon we may see the banning of the banning!
Join the banned!

Then later: Banned on the Run!

 

[telemnemonics]

Yes I mentioned the type of regulations and they are even mentioned in some of the court cases i referred to…

I got that, but was trying to keep separate the two separate issues.

1) Can we busk?

2) Can running a business on public property or anything else we do in public be regulated?

So many folks get all up in arms confusing those two different things.
Freedom of speech has nothing to do with needing a permit to busk.
That was the OPs question.

 

[P Thought]

the banned

Band name alert

 

[TF from MN]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe the difference between busking and playing music in the park is "amp or no amp". Audible or semi-inaudible.

When I went to Las Vegas last year, there were several buskers on the Strip, singers with backing tracks and large portable speakers, performing very loud on some of the pedestrian walkways between the casinos.

 

[mexicanyella]

He was driving around in his '53 Ford pick up!!

This is preposterous! A ‘53 ford pickup would have overheated at 108 degrees before he even started it or left the driveway! Flatheads can boil over at rest.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I can’t see how just sitting in the park and strumming a guitar counts as busking for the purpose of this license, as long as you don’t have a bucket out for money or a sign up asking for e-donations, etc.

 

[3-Saddle Bridge]

This is preposterous! A ‘53 ford pickup would have overheated at 108 degrees before he even started it or left the driveway! Flatheads can boil over at rest.

Maybe a straight 6......?
Cheers

 

[KeithDavies 100]

People forget that laws are there for a reason, and that reason is generally human and also a jerk.

Remember weird laws like 'you can't parade a pig down main street while banging pots and pans?' Yup, some guy did that, so they passed a law.

Basically, the city likely had to step in because somebody was annoying the crap out of people again and again with their 'busking' whenever and wherever they liked. So, they designated areas and made a fee for providing your oh-so-important unsolicited 'entertainment' to the public.

If you can't recoup that $40 in one or two sessions in the designated area, then you have no business playing in public anyway.

Harsh, but fair!

 

[Telekat 100]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe the difference between busking and playing music in the park is "amp or no amp". Audible or semi-inaudible.

When I went to Las Vegas last year, there were several buskers on the Strip, singers with backing tracks and large portable speakers, performing very loud on some of the pedestrian walkways between the casinos.

While the word is rooted in mid-19th century slang (busk meant "to cruise as a pirate") referencing individuals lifting shiftless lives (musicians, street performers, peddlers, etc.), busking (in the modern legal sense) is defined as performing in a public place, usually for gratuities. Electric or acoustic, it's all the same. And it doesn't need to be with a musical instrument. A mime with a hat out is busking.

Can you go to a park and sit quietly under a tree, strumming a guitar without a license? Sure. Probably. The police will only hassle you if you're annoying others.

But if you are doing this and purposefully performing for others in a public (non-venue) setting, now you're busking.

Especially when someone tosses a dollar bill your way. (What do you do then? Stop playing and insist they take their money back lest you be in violation of the law?)

I suppose you could have a sign up saying "no gratuities accepted." But that might only get you cleared AFTER you've been written a ticket and you show proof that you refused any gratuities to a judge in court.

And yes, there have been First Amendment cases about the right to busk that ended favorably for the defendant.

But a good lawyer would tell you, unless you're prepared to make this an idealistic (and possibly expensive) legal crusade to make a point, just pay the $40.

 

[banditpanda]

This is preposterous! A ‘53 ford pickup would have overheated at 108 degrees before he even started it or left the driveway! Flatheads can boil over at rest.

That's what she said!!!

 

[Toto'sDad]

This is preposterous! A ‘53 ford pickup would have overheated at 108 degrees before he even started it or left the driveway! Flatheads can boil over at rest.

I see you are familiar with the heating characteristics of the Ford flat head V8. Stop leak was invented for them. Also, all manner of home remedies for closing the cracks in the heads and blocks of same. It was rumored that the Ford flathead V8s came equipped with cracked blocks from the factory. Though there was need for factory intervention, because they could develop cracks in the engine while parked in a controlled environment without actually even starting the engine.

 

[Telekat 100]

It never ceases to amaze me how almost every thread that seems to be a straightforward question invariably goes off the rails and on to an entirely unrelated topic.

 

[mexicanyella]

My fault...sorry, as you were

 

[omahaaudio]

I'm sounding pretty OK on acoustic guitar these days, and I'd like to take it outdoors and play for the peoples.
Minneapolis now requires buskers to buy a 40 dollar license, and play only in designated locations.
I don't intend to ask for money. So maybe I can ignore the city regulation, and do my thing anywhere - ?
I'll research later, but thanks for any comments.

Try asking the City of Minneapolis.

 

[omahaaudio]

If you aren't getting any money, are you still busking?

If you don't accept cashless payments are you still busking?

 

[scottser]

Sounds like hassle. Why don't you approach a coffee shop or record store and ask can you play some songs for their customers for free?

 

[Toast]

If your net worth is over $1.5 million, then they'll leave you alone. Otherwise, pay the forty bucks.

 

[yegbert]

Better to pay to be on the safer side. Even if you don’t want money, some listener might want to give you some.

 

[Lou Tencodpees]

Any time these types of regulations get put it place it creates a multitude of ambiguities and it almost always revolves around other entities "getting their envelope". Personally, a requirement to secure a $40 permit would be a deal breaker for me. I say either don't require a permit or simply don't allow it for the sake of public safety issues (pedestrian traffic flow, etc.).

 

[Honga Man]

Is the $40 a one-time fee, or do you have to renew it every year?