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If I would have known... Grammar rant

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by AJBaker, Jan 13, 2021 at 6:51 AM.

  1. AJBaker

    AJBaker Friend of Leo's

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    If I had known that 'if I would have known' was becoming the new norm, then I would have got quite upset...:)


    I keep hearing people on youtube saying 'if I would have' instead of 'if I had' or 'had I', and to my ears it sounds jarringly wrong.

    Does it sound as wrong to you?

    I come across things like: 'What if Napoleon would have won?', or 'If I would have received your letter, I would have [...]'

    I'm a native English speaker, but I didn't grow up in Britain, so I learned the language from my parents, books and TV, rather than from other young people. This makes my experience learning the language a bit different that of the average man on the street in London or New York, so I wonder if those examples sound as jarring for you as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 6:59 AM
  2. hemingway

    hemingway Poster Extraordinaire

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    Had I known . . .

    but nyah, I have other stuff to worry about right now.

    You get older, you either let it go or you turn into one of those old people that people don't want to know.

    I still want to hang around hot young chicks when I'm old. So I'm lettin' stuff slide.
     
  3. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    I'm quite used to people mangling the English language after reading TDPRI for the last ten years. :D
     
  4. northernguitar

    northernguitar Tele-Meister

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    Whenever a grammar cop is upset, I just quietly say 'There, their, they're.'
     
  5. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    What I would of said...
     
  6. AJBaker

    AJBaker Friend of Leo's

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    Good point:D
     
  7. brookdalebill

    brookdalebill Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    What y’all talkin’ ‘bout, anyways?
     
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  8. 985plowboy

    985plowboy Friend of Leo's

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    I blame it on computers.
    Spellcheck
    Grammar check
    On and on
    No need to become literate, just make sure you buy the latest gen of technology.
     
  9. stormsedge

    stormsedge Friend of Leo's

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    Duh huh...yup! ;) I am messing with you. I spent much of my career administrative hours fixing papers prepared by high school and college graduates. I blame the parents.
     
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  10. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    It ain't write I tell you!!
     
  11. northernguitar

    northernguitar Tele-Meister

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    Grammar matters! It’s the difference between knowing your sh1t and knowing you’re sh1t.
     
  12. mad dog

    mad dog Friend of Leo's

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    I could be wrong of course, but I don't think the usage cited is wrong. May not sound as right to you, but not wrong.
     
  13. ale.istotle

    ale.istotle Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    "If I would have known" is unremarkable here in my part of the US in everyday speech. It's often "If I would've known" and further "If I would OF known."

    At least we don't have time travel paradoxes to take into account when conjugating our verbs. "had have will placed..."
     
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  14. Brad Pittiful

    Brad Pittiful Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    in grammar school...they didnt really focus on grammar as much as the name of the school implied
     
  15. ukepicker

    ukepicker Tele-Afflicted

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    I learned to speak in Texas. I have since been educated, mostly in the south, but educated nonetheless.

    I grew up saying "If I'da known" and sometimes "If I'da knowd".

    For the record, I prefer "If I had known" over "If I would have known", but the people around me here in East Texas don't typically speak that way.

    I've decided that the customary grammar-mangling that takes place in the south is actually their (our?) own version of the language. And comes with its own grammatical rules and is completely acceptable, in context.

    And I take pride in being able to speak both ways.

    For instance: last night, I ran into a mob of old-timer cowboys at a restaurant. I was wearing REI type clothing, they look liked they were going to cowboy church. But I could talk to them in their language and immediately had familiarity. Same goes for someone from "up-north" (anywhere north of the Red River :)). I can talk like the man on the six o'clock news and earn their trust, too.

    But speaking the opposite way to either party can often result in an immediate dismissal.
     
  16. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    Known if I would have.
    Yoda
     
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  17. AJBaker

    AJBaker Friend of Leo's

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    Languages change over time, and what was considered wrong can come to be the new normal.

    For example, a long time ago it used to be 'where are you?' and 'whither are you going?' (sort of similar to the difference between 'in' and 'into').

    Mixing up 'where' and 'whither' used to sound as wrong as 'I am into the house', but these days you use 'where' for both situations.

    'If I would have' is still considered incorrect grammar (see link below), but I imagine that might change in the next decades.

    (And dont get me started on 'less/fewer'...)


    https://www.grammarbook.com/blog/verbs/if-i-would-have-vs-if-i-had/
     
  18. blue17

    blue17 TDPRI Member

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    I would say, and I'm saying this from a place of high authority [good writing score on my SAT (irony intended)] that it seems like "correct English" tends to become more concise over time.

    Example:

    Shakespearean Middle English: Wherefore art thou Romeo?
    Modern English: Why are you Romeo?

    So it would seem that a phrase like "if I would have known" would still be considered wrong given the trends the language tends to take.

    I'll take my punishment now.
     
  19. Tuneup

    Tuneup Tele-Meister

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    Little did he know...
     
  20. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    That she knew...
     
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