If every successive generation of DSP/SS Amps is better and more tube-like than the one before...

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Mike Eskimo, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    ...Then when do you buy ?

    Because you know you’ll buy it and then you’ll play the same model or one from the same maker, in five years and go “oh my gosh what a giant leap forward!”

    I should have held off!

    I grabbed our practice space amp which is an old Vox VT30 with the chrome looking front which I always thought I could get a decent tone out of for rehearsal and have been using it at home for a week or so.

    It made me think, is the current version of this amp from Vox way better overall or is it just way better than the old one but I would still be able to tell that it’s digital and/or solid-state ?

    Just like those Tonemaster Amps that everyone is having so much fun loving or hating on that other thread. Is there going to be a next generation Tonemaster in 6 years and it’s going to sound even better than this one ?

    Built-in obsolescence so that folks keep buying from whichever company is making them?
     
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  2. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I like SS amps for their cleans at least mine are pristine , G&K 112 and a heavily moded Fender Jam but I still love tube distortion ,SS or analog distortion (ALA pedals,
    like TS9's Blues Drivers etc) all sound like crap to me .
    My G&K is my go to amp to hear what the guitar Im using sounds like , If yuou have a SS amp its amatter of getting to know and understanding your equipment , that familiarity moves you forward to practical applications .

    I'm also working on a G&K 200G all transisitor amp it was one of the first amps to have a current limiter to go from 3 Watts to 120 watts output and a preamp out , the trade off was there is no power stage input ( the power stage is pooched so a complete rebuild of the power stage is required )
     
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  3. 57fenderstrat

    57fenderstrat Tele-Meister

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    Yeah that is bound to happen, technology will just keep getting better and these brands know just what to do to provoke our fragile states of GAS. All they have to do is use some trigger words like “transparent, responds to volume and dynamics, etc” and everyone comes flocking in. I got my first smartphone a few years back, iPhone 6. It was the newest model at the time and I felt snazzy about it but it only took a few months before it was the older model.
     
  4. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    It doesn’t always work that way.

    Helix, Fractal, and Kemper all deliver firmware updates with new features regularly, so it’s the update that becomes “the next best thing ever”.

    That said, they also all offer new pieces of hardware, usually to fill a missing price point or segment of potential users.

    As for actual modeling amps - can’t comment.
     
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  5. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

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    It kinda says the tube is the supreme thing..

    Why go for a fake when you can have the real deal?
     
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  6. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Or...are the ears becoming acclimated to solid state and digital modeling results????
     
  7. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    They might keep getting better but still never quite reach the target...

    upload_2019-10-1_10-21-12.png
     
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  8. Mark the Moose

    Mark the Moose Tele-Meister

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    It's music. You should have an instrument/amp that makes you happy to play music. After awhile you'll probably update/upgrade and that's ok.
     
  9. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    It'd be so boring & inexpensive to just cut to the chase and by the tube amp!

    I have 1 tube amp and 2 modelers. I never play the modelers, I should sell them and buy another tube amp. A Princeton would go really well next to my Orange!
     
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  10. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    I am personally responsible for preventing the extinction of Converse high top sneakers. You may scoff in disbelief but it's true!

    I gave up my bellbottoms when The Ramones gave up theirs. I believe they stopped wearing bellbottoms when they stopped breathing.

    I resisted buy compact discs and continued buying LPs. I have been successful in that. LPs are back!

    Someday I will promote a concert on top of a mountain made of discarded electronics. Said concert will have an all- tube backline.

    :D :D :D
     
  11. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    That & the drop in re-sale value is the problem of modelers (compared to tube amps)

    The BIG argument that Fender threw in the game is the Tone Masters indeed: weight, no menus, one sound - & it's not bad.

    The weight argument is VERY big imho
     
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  12. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

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    The premise is flawed. Many old, analog SS amps sound great. New stuff meh
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  13. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I just played a festival gig. The backline amp was a Hot Rod Deluxe, which is perfectly fine. But I had my Fender SuperChamp with me and chose to use it since I know how to set it where I like it.
    The sound company guy was quite impressed with it and asked where I got it. He was pretty surprised to find out that I am the original owner. I bought it around 1983. How many SS amps bought today will still
    be owned, used, and impressing informed music industry people in the year 2056?
     
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  14. glenlivet

    glenlivet TDPRI Member

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    "DSP/SS Amps"

    --- My opinion only.....not to be confused with fact or truth.
    *Some* of the old SS Amps are OK....I had a Gibson GT-20(?) for a long time...and kind of liked it..Currently digging a little 1980's Fender Harvard Reverb II.
    ....
    but the newer DSP/SS amps feel like a cell phone or an iPad with a speaker attached to them.

    They make the sound, and they make the volume, but they have no soul.
     
  15. Ian T

    Ian T Tele-Holic

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    The modeling has come a long way and will undoubtedly continue to improve.

    In some ways, my Helix does things better than the real McCoy. I find the higher gain amp models are more touch sensitive than the same amps in real life. They clean up more when turning down guitar volume. I can see modeling taking this further and resulting in amp models that are far more touch sensitive and responsive than is possible in real life tube amplifiers.

    That said, the digital modeling always seems to fall short at some point. It's usually some kind of boxiness or harshness that comes out in the tone.

    I haven't found any kind of way to amplify the modelers than comes anywhere close to the sound and ambiance of a cranked tube amp in the room. However, when you are recording or playing through in-ears, it's much closer. Truth is that in big venues when the PA is amplifying your tone, the room ambiance of a tube amp is lost, and all the audience is left with is the 2 dimensional tone that comes through the mic'd speaker and out of the FOH. This is what modelers do, and they can come very close with many side benefits, such as consistency, lack of tube maintenance, portability, and no stage volume which control freak soundmen love.

    I usually have no problem getting a musically inspiring tone out of my Helix or Scuffham S-Gear. From there, I can focus on playing and making music. I use these when cranking the tube amp is impractical. Different tools for different jobs. Sometimes you just have to find something that is good enough and then get back just playing, making something happen with it.

    I am looking forward to seeing where the modeling goes in the future.
     
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  16. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Another question would be why do so many seem to believe and take comfort in magical technology?

    Yet many are perpetually dissatisfied anyway, even with the magical technology. And so comes tube rolling, rectifier changes, speaker swaps, and tube amp flipping.

    I will admit to being petty enough to be amused by concerns over longevity and repairability of new tech. Given that by my scientific observation the average ownership duration of most amps if any type on forums is 2.7 months.

    It either allows me to make great sound and has great dynamics or it doesn’t.

    If it makes great sound and has great feel, why would I worry about “better”? And why would I care what tech is involved?
     
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  17. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    There are many examples of bravery and just as many examples of being foolhardy.

    Wearing Converse All-Stars, whether low or high, after the age of 30-something is an example of both.*

    I wonder if converse realizes that if they were to market a pair of all stars with hidden support – so they look exactly like regular All-Stars on the outside but they have the support that geezers need - even if they sold them for $100 , they could not make enough to satisfy the entire world.

    *As I type this I am looking at my all-star low tops and wondering whether to wear the white pair or the gray pair or the black pair...:lol::lol::lol:
     
  18. The Angle

    The Angle Tele-Holic

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    Yes and yes. I upgraded from an AD30VT to a VT40X. That's a jump three generations forward. The improvement is significant and obvious. But you can still tell it's digital.

    I have three all-analog solid state amps that deliver gorgeous, pristine clean tones: Vox Pathfinder 15r, Peavey Envoy 110, and Behringer gx108 Firebird. Clean is clean, so I'll probably keep those amps for many years, if not the rest of my guitar-playing life. If I want distortion or smooth crunch, I go straight to the VT40X.

    As to why not wait? Because eventually, the advancement in modelling over what I have makes pulling that trigger worthwhile. Yes, eventually the VT40X will be surpassed to the point where I want to upgrade again. I paid $60 for the AD30VT used, and sold it for $70. I paid $105 for the VT40X used, and I'll probably sell it for at least that much when a replacement comes along. In the meantime, I get to use what I consider a terrific amp, essentially for free. Where's the downside?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  19. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Short answer:

    I'm a magician.
     
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  20. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    And if I didn’t have some seriously rad stickers all over my cube 60 , I would sell that on craigslist to any bidder.

    Done with it.
     
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