Identifying as a musician:

[McGlamRock]

Downloading beats and playing prerecorded music is cheating.

If you are producing a ‘scratching sound’ by scratching a record with your hands, in a rhythmic way, I think you could classify that as a percussion instrument. Playing music from the record being scratched is also cheating.

So if the DJ can play rhythmic scratches, and stabs with the drummer and then take a ‘scratching solo’ over a blues… i would consider that DJ a musician. That said, I’ve never heard it done.

 

[Lou Tencodpees]

I remember back in the 80's or early 90's my corporate office, already in love with acronyms, decided to call our service techs "CE's" (Customer Engineers). These were folks who went out and repaired office equipment. I'm guessing there was some pushback from folks who actually had engineering degrees and the title didn't stay around long.

If a title requires a degree, certification, license, I can see there being debate. Then again, despite never having been knighted, I don't push back when misidentified as "sir".

 

[Musekatcher]

I don't see DJs as a threat to good live music, anymore than porn is a threat to a real partner. If a majority wanna do their thing to a facsimile, that's fine. There will always be those that prefer the real thing. I think I'm always gonna spend my time with and entertaining the latter, for the right reasons.

 

[BadMojo1]

Side note: are we talking about millennials or gen z’s here? For reference I’m 31 and I’m a millennial, the just hitting 20ish crowd are the gen z folk. And I highly prize my literacy (and use of emoji use)

I work with the gen z crowd mostly in my job, and for the most part I love them. Enthusiastic and inventive in many ways, but I’ve noticed discussions on music definitely fall flat. But there are some very talented young musicians out there pushing the boundaries!

I do cringe at the “I identify as” ideology, which we should stay away from discussing too much for the sake of forum rules.

Calling yourself something you’re not to fit into a crowd is as old as language is itself. I believe if you play an instrument well you’re a musician, but there can never be a black and white absolute line in the sand to differentiate whether someone is a musician or not. Let people call themselves what they will, their peers will sort them out.

As much as I play, write, record, dabble, I wouldn’t be comfortable calling myself a musician. Just the same way that I have built multiple guitars and done plenty of mod and repair work, I wouldn’t call myself a luthier.

Imposter Syndrome is very real, but can go the other direction just as far too, in the case of your mixtape-musician you described.

I couldn’t agree more! I play, write lyrics and put chords together that make some sense, record and dabble as well. But, after 57 years I still cannot read music so I hesitate to call myself a “musician”. I played professionally for 30+ years because I’m damn good at playing by ear and most times remember all the chords (lol)! Since I’ve gotten older it seems there are a lot more “jazz chords” as a good friend calls them in the middle of a song but, that’s just my memory going downhill on a bobsled! as for the definition of musician, even a composer or conductor has to have an instrument to play it out on. Maybe I’m old skool but, you have to know how to play. Just my opinion…..

 

[badinfinities]

 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

I don’t identify as a musician. If someone asks if I’m a musician, I say I like to noodle a bit.

When I DJ, I’m a DJ.

When I’m a sound tech, I’m a patsy/whipping post/counsellor/busser/janitor/referee/first responder…

But musician, for me, is a struggle to think I’m worthy of such.

But that’s just me.

 

[Telekat 100]

Just because one says they identify as something doesn't mean they are that something.

I realize that's a loaded statement. But staying focused on "musician," in language, there are defined parameters for what that word means. And while many things, ranging from the rhythmic pounding of a machine to the birds twittering away can have a sense of musicality to them, that does not mean that steelworkers and sparrows as catalysts of those sounds are musicians.

What I find interesting is, among the many posts, those who are obviously musicians by any definition seem to eschew the word and just leave it to others to call them that, rather than saying they "identify" as such and such.

 

[sadfield]

Maybe I’m old skool but, you have to know how to play.

Play what though? A rhythm? A melody? An Instrument?

There's a bloke from these parts that had a 20 year career making money from farting classical music.

 

[getbent]

when my daughter was a freshman in college, we went to visit and we took some of her friends to dinner. My daughter, with great pride, introduced each girl to us and then added, 'you know she is a rocket scientist' 'she is a geneticist' and so on...

I was gracious (and made sure the girls got dessert) but, after we dropped them off for the night, I laughed about the preposterous (to me) designations... They weren't any of those things! They were in their first year of college!

Now, these many years later... they are ALL of those things. One at JPL, one is a big time DNA expert, all have done well and... lived up to the billing. One of them designs fancy racing sail boats that are, from what I read, high science.

maybe it is helpful to buy dinner and dessert for those with lofty ambition vs. correcting them in their moment of deigning to dream.

 

[Swirling Snow]

If you want a snappy comeback, just ask to see their union card.

I'm not sure if I'm a has-been wannabe, or a wannabe has-been, but once, I too, identified as a rock star.

 

[lammie200]

Compared to someone that doesn't spend a vast majority of their free time playing musical instruments, exercising their human voice under control, listening to various types of music, writing and working through charts, studying music theory and notation, etc. I consider myself a musician. I also consider myself to think differently about other things besides music than many non-musicians. Maybe that is good and bad, but it is at least approaching a great deal of things from anything but an unadventurous viewpoint.

 

[tworedsquirrels]

Now an attempt to divert from my AI fraud thread that seems to have taken on a life of its own. So my new question now is “Am I a musician just because I say I identify as musician?”

This was triggered by an experience over the weekend when I was at a post show chill party after DJ-ing for 250 graduating students locally. A fellow DJ was asked me where I “got my tracks from” (I’ll explain this later but virtually all DJs download their tracks from a handful of sites).

I pointed out that I don’t download, I make my own from scratch using my DAW, assorted instruments from sax to guitar that I play and various singers , real and AI, easy enough as I'm a professional session musician.

Oh cool, she replied, “ I identify as a musician too”

“So what do play? Do you sing?”

“No I don’t play any instruments and can’t sing but I curate and mix and sometimes I buy rare unheard of records and turn them into mp3s for my sets (“crate digging”), and play them for people so I identify as musician” she cheerily replied.

I waited for the howls of laughter and derision but they didn’t come, just much nodding in approval from the drug and alcohol addled millennials at our booth. So now we have an interesting new idea, if I play some obscure records I bought and transcribed, or a bunch of MP3s I downloaded, on a laptop in a nightclub, I’m a musician?

This doesn’t bode well for the sales of FMIC…

Now don’t get me wrong I like DJ-ing but its hardly difficult, it’s basically some slick software (Rekordbox or Traktor- illiteracy is highly prized by millennials/Gen Z thank you @NewTimerJH ) and a dedicated MIDI controller that does all the heavy lifting. DJs use 2 or 3 sites like Beatport and download their MP3s weekly , then go to sites for matching keys etc ( they have even invented their system of key affinity called “Camelot” rather than learn basic theory) so pretty much every DJ plays the same stuff albeit with different amounts of twiddling on the FX/EQ controls. I learnt to DJ in about 30 minutes on this which cost $300 ( N.B.my own tracks with key/bpm in their names)

Now I like DJ-ing: My take is to create unique themed sets ( e.g 70s string driven Disco) based on 100% originals/self-played reworks of fave tracks and it’s a great workout for my production/writing/playing skills…Plus the money is surreal: I get 50% of the door if the capacity is over 90% full so on my date on Saturday I played a small club that holds 250 , charges £10 on the door for me and 2 support DJ/”Musicians “and it was full by 11:00.

Do the math and you’ll see it beats splitting $300 five ways for playing Sweet Home Alabama at Bubbas Botulism Grill in Downtown Poughkeepsie.. Plus you are surrounded by ecstatic 20 and 30 something who are lot easier on the eye than some of the “maturer” folk at Bubbas..

I did a sanity check and asked 15 or so download/fx button pushing DJs I know through my ferocious agent and all concurred: they are definitely “musicians” as far as they are concerned although none of them can play anything

Anyhoo, it now seems that saying a “I’m musician” makes you a musician even if your only musical skill is breaking wind in D flat… And you wasted all that time learning how to play the solo in Hotel California…

This Argument could run and run. The core of the argument is this 'what is your definition of a musician?' This is not about facts. Each person is free to create their own definition. Others may disagree with the definition but there are still no facts involved.

 

[telel6s]

{Note: I did not read all seven pages of replies; sorry if I'm repeating something already said.}

Being a good DJ is a really cool skill. There's a reason some of them fly all over the world to play events and festivals, or why locally some are booked at good money for more than a year out into the future. But......

Why not just be proud of being a DJ? For the subject written about in the original post, why did she need to identify as a "musician"? Does she not think that being a DJ is good enough?

As for myself, when I'm sitting on my couch working up new songs, improving old songs, or trying to write songs I am a musician. When I'm playing most of my gigs, I am a beer/wine/drink salesman.

 

[Highway 49]

My thoughts are that if you want to call yourself a musician, that means you can make music instantaneously on a musical instrument.

The problem here - if you don’t mind me saying - is that a huge variety of things can be used to make music - whether it’s primary school children banging coconuts together… or someone doing something with turntables

 

[bbetancourt]

... So my new question now is “Am I a musician just because I say I identify as musician?”

Since I identify as an <insert your favourite profanity here>, I'd say it requires at least some musical skill to claim musicianship.

And in regards of DeeJays... YES I've heared some very skilled DJs, who used a set of turntables or MP3-decks to create their own music from the prerecorded material and I would never hesitate to call them fellow musicians.

But also... NO I would never call the average playlist-joe any form of that.


Had a gig earlier this year where I shared my PA with a DJane. She was hired to provide some dance music after my performance.
Standing at the bar scrolling listless through her playlist was her entire "performance". Things just got a little lively when she realized that her phone was running out of battery and she started dashing around asking everyone in the room for a charging cable. That was at least somewhat entertaining. (Yes her old iPhone playing via BT really was her whole equipment)

Anyhoo, it now seems that saying a “I’m musician” makes you a musician even if your only musical skill is breaking wind in D flat

hilarous - I'm stealing that.

 

[Mjark]

Now an attempt to divert from my AI fraud thread that seems to have taken on a life of its own. So my new question now is “Am I a musician just because I say I identify as musician?”

This was triggered by an experience over the weekend when I was at a post show chill party after DJ-ing for 250 graduating students locally. A fellow DJ was asked me where I “got my tracks from” (I’ll explain this later but virtually all DJs download their tracks from a handful of sites).

I pointed out that I don’t download, I make my own from scratch using my DAW, assorted instruments from sax to guitar that I play and various singers , real and AI, easy enough as I'm a professional session musician.

Oh cool, she replied, “ I identify as a musician too”

“So what do play? Do you sing?”

“No I don’t play any instruments and can’t sing but I curate and mix and sometimes I buy rare unheard of records and turn them into mp3s for my sets (“crate digging”), and play them for people so I identify as musician” she cheerily replied.

I waited for the howls of laughter and derision but they didn’t come, just much nodding in approval from the drug and alcohol addled millennials at our booth. So now we have an interesting new idea, if I play some obscure records I bought and transcribed, or a bunch of MP3s I downloaded, on a laptop in a nightclub, I’m a musician?

This doesn’t bode well for the sales of FMIC…

Now don’t get me wrong I like DJ-ing but its hardly difficult, it’s basically some slick software (Rekordbox or Traktor- illiteracy is highly prized by millennials/Gen Z thank you @NewTimerJH ) and a dedicated MIDI controller that does all the heavy lifting. DJs use 2 or 3 sites like Beatport and download their MP3s weekly , then go to sites for matching keys etc ( they have even invented their system of key affinity called “Camelot” rather than learn basic theory) so pretty much every DJ plays the same stuff albeit with different amounts of twiddling on the FX/EQ controls. I learnt to DJ in about 30 minutes on this which cost $300 ( N.B.my own tracks with key/bpm in their names)

Now I like DJ-ing: My take is to create unique themed sets ( e.g 70s string driven Disco) based on 100% originals/self-played reworks of fave tracks and it’s a great workout for my production/writing/playing skills…Plus the money is surreal: I get 50% of the door if the capacity is over 90% full so on my date on Saturday I played a small club that holds 250 , charges £10 on the door for me and 2 support DJ/”Musicians “and it was full by 11:00.

Do the math and you’ll see it beats splitting $300 five ways for playing Sweet Home Alabama at Bubbas Botulism Grill in Downtown Poughkeepsie.. Plus you are surrounded by ecstatic 20 and 30 something who are lot easier on the eye than some of the “maturer” folk at Bubbas..

I did a sanity check and asked 15 or so download/fx button pushing DJs I know through my ferocious agent and all concurred: they are definitely “musicians” as far as they are concerned although none of them can play anything

Anyhoo, it now seems that saying a “I’m musician” makes you a musician even if your only musical skill is breaking wind in D flat… And you wasted all that time learning how to play the solo in Hotel California…

My son is involved in this or some subset. The DJ’s call themselves producers. 90% of what I’ve heard is unlistenable. My son does visuals while the “producer” dances around and turns knobs.

 

[Mjark]

Does it harm you in any conceivable way?

Perhaps if it takes revenue away from performers that spend years learning to play an instrument and sing.

 

[azureglo]

hilarous - I'm stealing that.

Unless you parp any other note, I'm coming after some royalties, my internal gases now identify as "art"

 

[Iamnot]

I think it's just weird to say " I identify as a musician too" in response to that. It seemingly gives reasonable suspicion that either others have challenged her claims to being a musician, or it's important to her to state that she is. While I would consider myself a musician, I wouldn't necessarily claim it as an "identity". Some might say you are only a musician if you make any sort of income doing it, like a profession, while others will say if you make music, you're a musician, even as a hobby.

She might not be able to collaborate with another musician on the spot, though I've known really good guitar players that couldn't play along with anyone else without losing tempo or staying in the key. It all comes down to semantics, but music is art, and one who makes it is an artist beyond anything else. Whether professional or hobbyist.

With current day technology, samples, plugins, etc..., Someone can arrange a piece without knowing how to play a chord or sing in key. An old site/game called Habbo Hotel allowed you to arrange samples in a sequencer, and all of the variations would line up in key/tempo/time signature, so you couldn't really do it " incorrectly" but there were certainly options available to make it not necessarily " good". You don't have to write your own music to be a musician, but I think you have to be able to perform it in some sense. If it's someone else's samples and you didn't create any type of beat or original idea even to the effect of " remixing", I'd say you are a producer or DJ. Whether or not you would consider those " musicians" might be another conversation. Maybe she will get into creating a melody or progession she dreamt of and applying it to a finished product, but I wouldn't call her a musician personally. I do think she could get to that point and is possibly just introducing herself to music from a different angle. The " I identify as a musician too" line tells me she wants to be not for the sake of creating something but just to be a "musician" based off of the culture.

I used to say " yeah I skate". I rode on an old Champs Sports skateboard ( not well ). I did extensive research and purchased a deck, trucks, bearings, and bushings piece by piece, getting what I saw as the top of the line. For anyone savvy in the sport or maybe once was around 2001, it was a Blind deck, Phantom 2 trucks, Bones bearings, and they weren't cheap. I went from a 30 dollar board to one that cost me maybe 300 in total. I only wore shoes intended for skating from companies like etnies and world industries, DC. I practiced ollying indoors on carpet and only got as good as " very close" to landing it. I went to vans skate park for a friend's birthday with a group. None of us were impressive, but I dropped in on a vert and ate crud almost immediately. I landed on my wrist too hard, and while I feel like it didn't necessarily hurt that bad, I became immediately nauseated, hanging my head down. I didn't cry, but one of the kids spread that story around at lunch the next day. I had never experienced pain that made me sick before, until then.

I lost interest in skating, I just couldn't get the hang of it. I wanted to be part of the culture, but I wouldn't say I was ever a skater. My parents got a guitar from a garage sale for me this same year and I've loved making music ever since.

 

[azureglo]

Interesting how folk are responding, I constantly have these same conversations with my old session buddies from the 70s/80s who are now reduced to working in supermarkets and driving buses, sitting in bars yelling “ Bloody tone deaf talentless kids making millions” to no-one who actually cares.

It intriguing to get a more global perspective than a few UK musicians who’ve fallen on hard times.

FWIW I love DJ-ing, the money is stupendous compared to session work and producing plus I’ve been offered support slots for some “names” who I have worked for so stoked about that, What peeves me slightly is now literally everyone is a “DJ” so I might be a bit late to this party…