I want 'the moon on a stick'. (Twin Reverb alternatives).

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by KelvinS1965, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Holic

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    I have a feeling that I'm asking the impossible, but please hear me out:

    Many years ago I played my JV Strat through a black faced Twin reverb; it stands out over many years of playing as the best clean guitar amp I've played through. Of course it's big, heavy and way too loud for home use, though the price of new reissues doesn't put me off; I could even fit one in my living room in place of one of my amps, but I'd never be able to take it out gigging/to rehearsals.

    Which (if any) other models would give me this clean tone (think Mark Knopfler or perhaps Hank Marvin) but in a more compact/light weight/less loud box? Of course I'll also want to play my modified Affinity Tele through it as well. :) Or am I after the impossible that only the size and power of the real thing will give me?

    I have a Line 6 Flextone III modeling amp which has a TR simulation, but it just doesn't 'chime' like the real thing did (or at least in my rose tinted memory). I also have a little 5 watt Blackstar all valve amp HT-5R which is great for other sounds, though the clean channel only has a basic tone control and doesn't really give me the clean sound I'm after.

    Any suggestions, preferable new would be gratefully received.
     
  2. Suproman

    Suproman Tele-Meister

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    Have you ever tried a Deluxe Reverb? It might be worth checking out, you should be able to get similar clean sounds out of it, especially for playing at home.
     
  3. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Holic

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    No I haven't tried one; I'd better add it to the list thanks.

    I did own a Fender Champ 112(?) amp about 12 years ago (if not longer) that had red knobs on it and was all valve. I can't remember the details of it now, but I never really gelled with it though so I sold it on.

    EDIT: Is this the one you mean:

    http://www.andertons.co.uk/combo-amps/pid17437/cid691/fender-65-deluxe-reverb.asp?LGWCODE=17437;56375;2717&utm_source=googlebase&utm_term=0217460000&utm_medium=pricecomp&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CK2ljLqW474CFYsfwwodkL0Awg

    Nice that it's a '65 model (same as me :D).
     
  4. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Fender used the same circuit (AB763) with minor changes for most of their '60s line. That means every Fender from the 20 watt Deluxe Reverb through the 85 watt Twin Reverb share the same circuit.

    Oddly there's a non- reverb version of AB763 as found in the Bandmaster and Showman. They got trem but no reverb. If I had my druthers I'd druther have reverb.

    The Princeton shares the same preamp with a slightly different circuit in between.

    The only way I like Line 6 is with true bypass so I have a straight shot at my tubes. Lotta people get confused and think there's a "clean" channel that ain't digital. if it goes through an A/D convertor (analog to digital) it's datastream after that. I'm not connected to my amp anymore.

    It might be "close enough" but a digital recording of a digital amp gets further and further from the truth.

    Whoa! Attack of the £1,112.00 (including VAT :D) DRRI! Makes me glad I live in the New World there the equivalent nearly $1900 buys me a real vintage Deluxe Reverb.

    Guess we're returning the favor for the '70s when Marshalls were expensive. :twisted:

    Seriously, I gotta find someone who greymarkets U.S. muscle cars to the U.K. so I can send over a few amps in the boot. :idea:
     
  5. Warm Gums

    Warm Gums Friend of Leo's

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    The "word on the street" for a number of years has been the Fender Champ 25/25 SE 1x12 2x6l6 hybrid.(ss pre like a Music Man) Often called a mini Twin or "poor mans twin" (at least when they were $150-$200) it's not really all that tiny (roughly the size of a PV bandit) and is surprisingly heavy, but much less than a Twin. Sounds pretty good clean (OD is very aggressive ). Not sure what they go for now or how easy to find they are in the UK.
    I like the Fender sims on the early L6 stuff, Pete Anderson (ex Dwight Yoakum) has been using MK1 Pods thru power amps for a few years now (his are a bit modified to his specs..) but you should be able to get that snap seeing has how a Flextone is pretty much a Pod W/ a PA & speaker in a box. I find I like things better with the noise gate off, seems to have a dulling effect. I also like fooling with the tweed models, they seem to have a bit more body than the BF, and support running the treble w/the bright switch on a bit better…
     
  6. Tele Convert

    Tele Convert Tele-Holic

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    Those deluxe reverbs sure do sound nice. At reasonable volumes they are chimey and clean.

    Are you set on tubes? Or are you willing to try a different modeler? A great alternative is a Mustang III. It really excels at the basic clean fender amp models. Especially the black face models. Definitely worth a play next time your at a music store.
     
  7. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Holic

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    Thanks every; I really appreciate the input. At least it seems that there are plenty of options open to me, albeit at some cost (but then a Twin isn't cheap either).

    I'd rather get an amp rather than another modeller since I'd still need something to play it through anyway and I'll probably trade the Line 6 otherwise I'm running out of space. I have a leaning for tubes, mainly because of that (possibly rose tinted) memory of the Twin reverb I played through.

    I've been looking at the other Fender amps on Anderton's site (as it's not far from me). They have quite a few videos though I need to plug my laptop into my AV gear for a better listen. The Hot Rod Deluxe sounding quite impressive for the low (ish) price and I've listened to their video of the previously recommended Deluxe Reverb. Of course it's the clean(er) sound I'm interested in and they tend to show more of the cranked or outright dirty tones. They don't seem to have all the options in stock either, so I'll have to try other shops for demos too.

    I'm not bothered about having trem, but I'd prefer something with reverb, though at a push I could use a separate pedal if need be. The Princeton '65 reverb might be worth looking into as well, though the UK price would probably shock you guys as it's £950.

    To put this into perspective though: Before I got back into my guitars I was really into my AV gear and last winter I upgraded 5 of my speakers at £1000 each, plus another £1,500 on a pair of self built subwoofers.

    The main criteria for this clean amp is that it has enough of the Twin sound but without further agrevating my sciatica every time I need to move it, nor blowing my ears off. :D
     
  8. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Maybe check out the youtube clips comparing the tones of the actual Twin to the Mustang III patch

    I know, the idea doesn't have the same sex appeal as tubes. But the press on these is very good, as is the general consensus right here on this site
     
  9. Tele Convert

    Tele Convert Tele-Holic

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    That sounds like you need a princeton. :lol:
     
  10. Dismalhead

    Dismalhead Poster Extraordinaire

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    My new Vox AC15C1 combined with my American Lone Star Strat (Texas Special pickups) gets a very Knopfleresque (I just made a new word) tone in position 4. Beautiful sound for both rhythm and lead.

    My Tele sounds completely different.
     
  11. Warm Gums

    Warm Gums Friend of Leo's

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    I have been saying that for YEARS
    Knopfleresque that is..actually I have a bad habit of tacking "esque" on far too many things.
     
  12. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Even at low volumes, a pair of twelves pushed by a quartet of 6L6s through a big transformer is going to have a thickness that smaller amps are hard pressed, if not incapable, of reproducing.
     
  13. Dismalhead

    Dismalhead Poster Extraordinaire

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    It needs to be added to the dictionary. Most guitarists know exactly what it means, and it is a very unique sound.
     
  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Kelvin, if you ever get around a Rivera/Jahns era ('82-'85) Super Champ,
    Princeton REverb II or Deluxe REverb II, give it a try....light packages, handwired, FEnder reverb amp cleans, great overdrive, too.

    OF course, I have to say that if you played through that TR at some volume, then imho there is no other amp that does what a TR does at volume. It takes weight to do that thing. Too loud for home use??? NO way...unless you are trying to get it to overdrive! For cleans, if one knows how to adjust the tone controls in relationship to the volume control, a TR can be very rich and full at low volumes.
     
  15. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Holic

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    Shame there is no 'like' or 'thanks' button on here, but I do appreciate all the responses. :cool:

    I know what you mean by 'very Knopfleresque' and I've looked (on line) at the Vox options: Hank Marvin was on BBC TV last week and he was playing through a Vox (excuse my ignorance but I'd always thought he played Fender amps).

    I guess that Frodebro falls into the 'I'm after the moon on a stick' camp as it sounds like only a real twin will do for you.

    While I would love to have a real twin (I appreciate that maybe it wouldn't need to be turned up to enjoy) I think I'd struggle to move it. It would be a shame to have such a nice amp that I only use in my living room. I'm in a covers band, though we're just starting out we hope to gig eventually, so I'd want to be able to use it live.

    FWIW I didn't play the twin that loud, just loud enough to be heard over the drum kit. For comparison at the time I owned a 30 watt transistor amp (in fact it is still in my loft) which I usually used at similar levels but it didn't sound anything like as good.
     
  16. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Actually, I have a DRRI that I am quite fond of. But it doesn't have the same "girth" as a big amp. I've got a 90 watt Boogie and a 100 watt Marshall that scratch that itch. :twisted:
     
  17. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Holic

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    A Boogie, a Marshall and whatever a DRRI is...that's just greedy. ;):D I kind of know what you mean, in the 'no substitute for cubes' style (my twin 15" subwoofers fall into that category compared to the previous single 12" one in my Home Theatre). I wouldn't have space for a Marshall stack (though maybe in a few years when my son's room is vacant :twisted:).
     
  18. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Holic

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    So how weird is this: I walked into a shop today and bought this month's copy of Guitarist magazine and one of the features is a review of the '68 reissues of the Twin, Deluxe and Princeton, plus a big feature about pedal boards (another thing I've been looking into this week). I think they have some sound clips on their site too, so I can compare them on my hifi.

    In any case it's going to have to wait a little while (unless I spot a used bargain somewhere) so I'm not in any rush to buy now, but it'll be good to know where I'm heading. In the meantime I bought a lower gain/brighter tube for my Blackstar amp to see if it clears up the clean channel how I want for the time being: My JV Strat is due back in a couple of weeks from a total overhaul and refinish, having not played it for 6+ years after I striped it down, so I've not played it through a decent amp for a long time, the Blackstar will have to do for now.
     
  19. DaBender

    DaBender Tele-Afflicted

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    You probably realized as soon as you hit "Send" that you left the Concert off the list, and maybe the blackface Pro as well? I get my reverb from a Boss FRV-1 and you'd need much better ears than mine to hear what's wrong with it.
     
  20. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Alessandro Rottweiler?

    [​IMG]. 40-watt, 2x6L6.

    The combos come in various configs (2x12 + 2x8??) but a 1x12" would make it 1/2 a Twin.
     
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