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Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by artdecade, Oct 7, 2014.
... on a budget and in a small Boss-like footprint. What say you?
Well, the closest you'll get on a relatively low budget and a small footprint is a second hand Roland GR20 (it has a patch labeled "Pat Brass").
However, you might try using distortion to emulate this. For example, I've heard one version of "The Red One" were he used distortion instead of a synth, and it wasn't that obvious at first. Not sure which pedal but I'm sure a DS1 would do the trick.
You mean the trumpet-like tone? The Roland synths have had that patch since the late 80's - I still have an old GR-50 with that sound in it. The newer smaller units would have that sound.
I know Pat's rig pretty well. I am just wondering if any of those new Synth pedals out there can cop this tone. Seems like a few companies are getting into the synth thing, like Subdecay, Earthquaker, etc.
The gr-55 does it. Not on the budget though.
^ I know. Its killer. Just way more than I want to spend at the moment.
I like that tone.
I'd think that they'd mostly be "analog synth" as opposed to what PM uses, which is definitely DSP.
I'd think a GK-3 and the appropriate DSP device would be nearly impossible to emulate any other way.
Some of the Trombetta pedals will do a faux horn thing, but whether or not "it's PM sounding" is another issue.
A Sonuus G2m paired with just about any Roland/Korg/E-mu rack synth from the late 80's-90's would get you close. The Sonuus is monophonic, so no chord stabs or anything, and the full rig would be bigger than a Boss pedal, but the total cost should be < $150.
I've heard them. They are cool for what they are, but they are far from what I have in mind. Ha.
Thanks, K. I think I will have to learn to live without, because I can't see going all out with the synth guitar. Its just too much money for a little bit of fun.
There is a 'defretter' and synth pedal emulations in my GT100 multi-fx.
The defretter effect can be tweaked to make some cool synth guitar sounds - in the ilk of Pat M. I have not seen it as a standalone pedal but I've not searched much .
The new GT100 2.x firmware also added pitch to midi which works surprisingly well and fast for single note (monophonic) stuff - if you have a midi keyboard synth or something like GarageBand you can play the synth patches on the guitar with no special pickup - just the 1/4 cable
I hear you. I worked with a guy about a decade ago who did the whole nine yards - Godin guitar, hex pickup, and then dropped over a grand on whatever Roland synth box was the big deal at the time.
I've been a Fripp fan for the longest time, so that takes it up a few degrees, with the Sustainer and more than just one DSP box. But to get that range of sounds along with the trad guitar stuff.
A Jordan Bosstone can be modded to do the faux horn thing, and it's possible to make it sound horn-like, but you're right - not in a PM way. And - it requires altering your technique to really pull it out of the guitar. IDK what all the Trombetta pedals have to offer, and one of them might set you back as much as a GK-3 and a processor.
....I actually think that ProjeKct Two - Space Groove - is about the most impressive use of what that synth stuff can do, but many folks are bound to find the (double) album to be too experimental and drawn out. But it really does run the gamut, and IMO is probably the most tempting insofar as wanting to commit to the entire rig necessary to harness all of those sounds (in more than just a scholcky/gimmicky IMO kind of way).
I definitely find much of this stuff to be MUCH more musical sounding than something like Holdsworth's use of the SynthAxe on Atavachron, for example.
Settle for a wind synth.
Such an amazing album. Its a constant go-to album when I need a bit of inspiration.
I have to say - on the occasions that I just get bored with a "du jour guitar rig," Fripp really gave me a LOT of ideas for "alternate guitar sounds."
Around the time that Space Jam came out, I was diddling around a lot with Lexicon and similar processors for stereo delays and "reverbs that sounded interesting," and Fripp's use of just those with the "plain clean guitar sounds" is fantastic, IMO. But then you throw in the distorted guitar stuff, and then you throw in all the things emulating horns, flutes, vibes, etc. - it really is mind boggling, IMO.
...What is so cool about emulating a lot of those instruments with guitar is that we have access to a polyphonic instrument, whereas a sax or oboe can't do that. And you can even "two up" a vibe player who uses four mallets!
But there's also steel drum and sitar sounds, amongst many others. If they would have let Adrian play guitar, it would have been too much.
I also like how Fripp basically set the limit to just 6 tracks when recording - everyone got two, for stereo reasons. There were no mics whatsoever when they made that album (and obviously no amps or anything, either).
Sorry for the big digression, but that's the kind of stuff that intrigues me with the synth pickup setup. I remember the first time trying one back in a music store many moons ago (I guess it was the Roland GK-1?), and while I thought it would be gimmicky, I could really hear the potential.
Fripp is a master at setting up limits and then unleashing his musicians to experiment. You have to appreciate that willingness to experiment. Miles Davis and Frank Zappa were the same way. They would find like-minded musicians and take the music to new places. Its wasn't about selling records - Its about finding new ways to deliver your voice. Its takes a special type of musician to create an environment for other musicians to find themselves.
I absolutely appreciate the willingness. Zappa is another one who actually was a source of inspiration for me - Frank showed that there is a very artistic and creative aspect to being technically familiar with at least OPERATING gear, even if someone else designed it, or set it up for him.
And you're right - not about selling records. All about making music. I also appreciated how Frank would spend countless hours (without a break or sleep) until he finally got some part of a song to exactly as he thought it should be.
...So I suppose that some musicians will simply just keep pushing at something until they finally hit that point that is what they envisioned is "optimal," but it was great to have it "justified by Frank."
Like a lot of musicians, I didn't have much money growing up. That meant that I had to improvise with a lot of gear, and again - I'm glad I wasn't afraid to "be REALLY creative," or I never would have been able to get at a lot of the sonic results that I wanted.
While there's nothing wrong with playing it safe, or "using gear as directed," I have to admit that I simply lose interest from time to time. IDK how someone could convince themselves that there's just "one proper way," if that makes sense. I mean - if it weren't for Fripp & Belew, the thought of recording or performing without an actual amp is something that honestly just falls into a category of "basically being undesirable," even if products by Tech 21 or my beloved runoffgroove.com make it possible.
But - HEARING stuff done w/o an amp, and hearing it as great music - that makes it seem conceivable.
At the risk of getting into a tangent - Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree has been entrusted by Fripp for remastering duties of some (or maybe all) of the K.C. back catalog. Whether or not someone is a Porcupine Tree fan is almost irrelevant. What I find to be intriguing is that even though Wilson has the means to record with traditional methods of guitar amp/mic/etc., there's also a LOT of stuff that features the guitar straight into software, and some of it is what we would equate with lower gain/classic rock types of sounds - there's a bit of it here and there on The Incident, especially (another double album).
Some might say that Wilson crafts a "modern sound," so the technology works for him where it would not be proper for "the average guitarist." While it may not be appealing for some guitarists, I'd argue that his methods of not being restrained to what is traditional are actually what some musicians would probably benefit most from.
Fripp is a mad god and Belew is his prophet.
And I'm bummed that they are working together anymore!
im a huge zappa fan too.