I think I've been demoted

Discussion in 'Worship Service Players' started by vedt, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. Snowwizard

    Snowwizard Tele-Holic

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    Three thoughts.

    1. We are musical servants. Nobody minds being called a servant until somebody treats us like one. :)

    Meaning that if you've been asked to serve in that way, then serve.

    2. 2nd acoustic can be very useful and a lot of fun given the right circumstances.

    3. This probably should be #1. Buy your worship leader coffee and tell then how you feel
     
  2. Snowwizard

    Snowwizard Tele-Holic

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  3. mrboson

    mrboson Tele-Afflicted

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    My preference is electric, and probably always will be. We don't have electric leads, but rather guitar 1 and guitar 2. I'm usually guitar 2 and on electric, and getting the solos and fills. I also get a lot of the quiet times (meaning not playing for that stretch).

    We went a while all acoustic and I was asked to switch to 2nd on acoustic. We actually often had more than 2 acoustics (sometimes 3, sometimes 4 :D). Two players would double up a lot of the groove parts. When done right (and skillful players) I think that doubling sounds awesome. I still played fills, solos, and such.

    IMO, having multiple acoustics is a great opportunity for some really cool music. I can absolutely pound the guitar, and its natural compression limits the overall volume. I can use many of my effects pedals, especially in the lead parts. I don't (very often) play the same licks on acoustic as I do on electric, but when I do it is different in a cool way. And on occasion, I have kicked on some OD with the acoustic.

    So to the OP, it doesn't have to be boring. If the WL wants you all to play the same cowboy chords in a down-down/up-down/up-down/up-down-down/up-down/up-down/up strum pattern, than yeah, what's the point. But if there is an opportunity for creativity, the acoustic is a great platform. Even if there is already an electric doing its thing.
     
  4. Octorfunk

    Octorfunk Tele-Meister

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    I'm a worship leader at our church and have had to make some hard decisions involving the musicians in our band.

    I don't know you, nor have I ever heard you play before, so I say all these things merely from my own experience.

    Usually, whenever I move someone to a different schedule or instrument, it's for one of the following reasons:

    1. I'll move a guitarist to a different Sunday to help fill in the gaps of that particular band

    2. I'll have a guitarist/bassist/etc play fewer Sundays in order to free up some room for newer musicians that I would like to see get involved

    3. I'll ask an electric guitarist to play acoustic because I don't care for his playing, and as an acoustic player he'll have less of an impact on the sound of the band.

    That last one sounds harsh, but it's a balance we worship leaders have to deal with. I've got a guy playing electric for me right now that has a great heart, is always super-prepared, and is 100% reliable. The only thing is, I don't care for his playing/tone at all (heavy on the phaser, very 80's rock guitar). So my options are to leave him be and just deal with it, ask him to stop using his current guitar setup (phaser, etc), ask him to stop playing, or move him to acoustic guitar where his taste in tone doesn't really matter.

    I'm sure that sounds callous, but that's just where I'm at after 10yrs of leading.

    As to your particular situation, those might be some things to consider as you head into that conversation with your worship leader. Whether or not any of those are true, I'm just saying those might be some of the things going through your leaders' mind (right or wrong).
     
  5. rhoydotp

    rhoydotp Tele-Holic

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    I get what you are doing. But would you do it and not tell the person why you are doing it? If this is the case, it causes more harm than good to the person involve as it leads to confusion and second-guessing.
     
  6. rhoydotp

    rhoydotp Tele-Holic

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    this is probably a topic for another thread but I do not agree wit this assertion. tone matters for every instrument, even the lowly acoustic guitar.
     
  7. Butch Snyder

    Butch Snyder Tele-Afflicted

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    These are good thoughts; especially from the perspective of our worship leaders from this group. One thing I was thinking about, is God's testing and preparing. God can't grow us spiritually if we are comfortable. It's when we are uncomfortable that we are able to grow. God could also be testing and getting ready to move you into a different music ministry. He might be growing you, "sharpening you" so to speak and gearing your spirit and self up for another challenge.
     
  8. DannyStereo

    DannyStereo Poster Extraordinaire

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    +1.

    I'm super new to the acoustic world, but between the two I own I can see each one serving different songs better than the other, much like an electric.

    Plus I once heard a worship leader run his Taylor through a POD and PILE on chorus, delay, phaser, etc.

    Not addressing the issue, in love of course, may just mean he gets a POD and goes that route if he's on acoustic a lot. I know if I had a specific tone in mind I would.

    It's just a matter of attitude. If he is not recipient to the idea that he may need to play in a style that's less distracting from the overall worship service, maybe it's better to find a different ministry. I would involve your pastor in that conversation.

    I like my tone cranked, ODs on, boosts blasting and TONS of delay. Does that always work for Sundays? No. And I've learned to live with that.
     
  9. DannyStereo

    DannyStereo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Excellent thought, butch. Thanks for this! I personally never cared for acoustic, but I'm glad for the times I've been 'challenged' by it. Now that I'm in a leading role I'm glad I got the practice. Lol
     
  10. Special Tom

    Special Tom Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    3. I'll ask an electric guitarist to play acoustic because I don't care for his playing, and as an acoustic player he'll have less of an impact on the sound of the band.

    That statement is not only harsh but seems quite subjective. I would think that you have other musicians that also agree with you on his sound, otherwise you sound a lot like the OP's WL. I happen to think that the 80s sound still has its place in today's worship, right along with the over used U2 and Hillsong sounds . I would think the better solution would be to find songs that fit his style and let him play electric on them and switch to acoustic on other songs that don't fit his style. Your job is to use what God gives you effectively, not subjectively. What I said may sound harsh also.
     
  11. black_doug

    black_doug Friend of Leo's

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    The best WL in my thirty years doing this will always give specific direction and let me know exactly what he/she is looking for from me. Sadly, that's the exception rather than the rule.
     
  12. DannyStereo

    DannyStereo Poster Extraordinaire

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    +1.
     
  13. Octorfunk

    Octorfunk Tele-Meister

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    It depends on the person really. How would you (or me, or anyone really) honestly react if someone told you that your tone, that signature sound that you painstakingly chased and crafted, was not fit for the band you're a part of?

    Also, tone is deeply subjective, so if I as the leader say I don't "like" your guitar tone, I feel as though I merely open myself up to "well that's just your opinion" arguments. And that's totally true.

    My point is this: I'm all for brutal honesty when/where it's absolutely necessary. But in this particular situation, if I can direct a guitarist from electric to acoustic without criticizing their music, then that's what I'm going to do. Now if the guy wants to ask me why, then I'll do my best to lovingly tell him my opinion and the direction I'd like to see us going in.
     
  14. mrboson

    mrboson Tele-Afflicted

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    I can speak from experience. My preferred tone and what I guess you could call my signature sound is more like indie rock than anything else. At a time in the past, I was told by a WL that I would need to play something else in order to fit in with the team better. It was not a bad conversation, but I was given a choice. Adapt (they wanted Jesus Culture style) or don't adapt (that would mean no longer being scheduled to play electric). Was I ecstatic? No. But I got over it, and everything turned out OK. I think I have grown since then... I can try and fit into whatever style suits the MD/WL I am working with. I just like to play on worship teams :cool:
     
  15. henram36

    henram36 Tele-Meister

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    Unlike most band situations, being a part of a worship team sometimes means sacrificing our own desire for the good of overall worship.
     
  16. rhoydotp

    rhoydotp Tele-Holic

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    Fair enough, although I wish a lot more WL would do just this upfront without the "if the guy asks" ... I've seen this so many times and it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth of those who have been "moved" and eventually left.
     
  17. DannyStereo

    DannyStereo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Christians are terrible at asking. We assume everyone's fine. And we want everyone to assume we are fine as well.

    I'm as bad at that as anyone.
     
  18. Wound3rd

    Wound3rd Tele-Meister

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    I guess I should quit trying to respond with my phone. I give up!
     
  19. GuitarGuy43113

    GuitarGuy43113 Tele-Meister

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    I haven't seen it asked yet (and I apologize if it was), but is the other guitar player better/more skilled/more developed then you?

    I have been on both sides of the replacement game, I have been replaced by someone who the pastor thought was "better" than myself, and I have been hired in to replace another guitar player that couldn't handle the assigned parts. Both situations were not fun. But if the other guy handles the electric assignments better than you, there really is not much you can do about that (other than practice more).

    Just to add to the discussion, what is the relationship between the other guitar player and the leaders at the church? I was once replaced by a younger guy who was a friend of the pastor and was "going to make it big in the industry", and he wanted to get him in a leadership role so he could kick off his recording career. Talent and church needs were not considered in that decision. It was a clear sign to move on and I landed in a position at another church that allowed me to really help build a team and serve.

    So while this siutation is a bummer right now, keep in mind that you don't know what is being setup for the future. Just keep an open eye (heart?) to other needs that you might be able to fill, both at your current church and others.
     
  20. Octorfunk

    Octorfunk Tele-Meister

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    Agreed. And I'll be the first to admit, I'm passive by nature, so I don't want a confrontation or conflict unless it's absolutely necessary.

    I've seen it go both ways, so you never really know when dealing with musicians/creatives: sometimes they're very understanding, and sometimes they leave the church (sadly).
     
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