I Played The Fender Tone Master Amps Today

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Otis Fine, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. TeleTex82

    TeleTex82 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,469
    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Location:
    San Antone
    I think I've made up my mind to sell my blues cube tone capsules to fund a TMTR. I'd have the best of both worlds, tweed and blackface!
     
    DekeDog likes this.
  2. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Age:
    63
    Posts:
    8,366
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    I can make a new report on the Tone Master Twin Reverb's sound (or tone, if you prefer) when running at the .5 watt level.

    I had been using the #2 input as I had on my Blues Deluxe to help control the volume for in home use. On a whim, I switched to the #1 input (which is supposed to be 5 or 6 dB louder) and it made all the difference in the world. I can now get a decent, convincing sound and volume with out having to push the amp up into breakup. Don't misunderstand, neither it on it's own or working with the Origin 50 half stack in it's 1/2 watt mode is enough air moved to make you "feel" the amp (I'm talking about the vibratory chest and gut punch of a properly breathing amp) but, the proper "tone" is definitely there. I can now run the amps together wet/dry at a non-window shaking level and have them sounding, not just pleasant, but right and usable.

    Leave the settings the same but flip the amp switches to 5 watts and you get the same sound with a pleasing loudness that I love and can use but, admittedly, may be two loud for most to use at home (unless they have no family or close neighbors).
     
    TeleTex82 likes this.
  3. harry ramsden

    harry ramsden NEW MEMBER!

    Age:
    72
    Posts:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2019
    Location:
    uk
    In my experience people who A/B valve/tube and ss/modeller amps don't listen for the same things that I do. Sometimes it takes a while to realise what's missing, or what can't be changed. If a lot of people are happy with a certain ss/modeller amp used in a particular way, then it's a good indication it will be ok for those people and that use it in that way. It doesn't mean it will emulate well for all situations and uses. I'm definitely attracted to the low weight, but I've had mixed results with modellers, often because the aims of those doing the modelling have been different to mine. It's often resulted in a 'snapshot' of one of the real amp's configurations, but not the whole range. Of course the real amps and similar amp types vary, so it's not surprising a single 'model' has a lot to manage. When I get round to trying one I'll try and check for things I specifically look for as well as general capability. I've had better results recently with s/s emulators rather than modellers. They seem to have a degree of complexity to their sound that the modellers don't. OTOH some folks don't want complexity and prefer the snapshot sound which doesn't vary much. I was once that person and it bugged me that the sound varied too much when I was doing stuff on the guitar or its controls. Now I'm more in the opposite direction, not that I wan't ramdom changes, but do look for stuff you can vary predictably guitar and control variety.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    Bones and DekeDog like this.
  4. wharf_rat

    wharf_rat TDPRI Member

    Age:
    26
    Posts:
    14
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Location:
    Flint, MI
    For me the main sell would be weight, or the lack of rather. I haven't played one yet but from what I have read it could give a 70 pound Fender Twin a run for it's money. For players who are on the move these TM could be a nice grab.
     
  5. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    285
    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Location:
    Carolina
    This thread has cured me of my desire to check out those Blues Cubes. I expect the prices on both the Tone Master and the Blues Cubes are worth it, but it does concern me that an S/S modeling amp should be priced that high, when I've got a tube amp for only slightly more cost that I'm very happy with and an S/S amp that does what I want. Maybe I'll control my AAS until the price drops and the kinks get worked out.
     
  6. TeleTex82

    TeleTex82 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,469
    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Location:
    San Antone
    Don't get me wrong, the Blues Cubes are great amps. I am very happy with mine.
     
  7. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,960
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Location:
    Nashville



    Yep, the best bench testing for any signal processor:


    Say, you've a "JTM45" patch on your Kemper or whatever.

    Get as close to a real example JTM45 next to it with a guitar tone mostly clean to edge of breakup.

    Now, take a slightly different guitar, say a Les Paul to a 335 and listen for the variation. Optimally the real world variation between the two guitars will come through in your processor as much as in real life. There's a difference between "sounds good" versus "acts the part." This is before even sweeping through the amps/instruments control ranges, just the basics.

    It's those different input/output reactions in the real world that will define a processor's sound. You see it a lot with modeling reverb units. You plug in a compressed Tele and think "man they nailed it next to this plate reverb box" but then you plug in the Gretsch w/filtertrons and the digital unit will be way too balanced/warm compared to the real box.

    Again, the biggest challenge isn't creating a specific model of a certain recorded sound, per se, it's getting a modeling unit to act like the real thing regardless of the input signal.
     
    pugnax and ndcaster like this.
  8. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    89
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Location:
    Four Rivers Area of Middle America
    Is the Twin really 200 watts?
     
  9. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Age:
    63
    Posts:
    8,366
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Yes it is 200 watts.
     
  10. Otis Fine

    Otis Fine Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    821
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2016
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    However they did it, it's my understanding that they have made this amp capable of being every bit as loud as an 85 watt all tube Twin Reverb. However many solid state watts that is, I don't know.
     
  11. Dan Spiffy Neuman

    Dan Spiffy Neuman Tele-Holic

    Age:
    35
    Posts:
    610
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I never cared for modeling. I dont want one amp that sounds like 457340573408573 amps, I want it to sound like itself. However I've always wanted a lightweight Twin, preferably solid state. I'm excited to try these.
     
  12. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    50,206
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canuckistan
    Newsflash: at NAMM 2020, the Twin Reverb (you know, with tubes) will have a switch that lets you choose between tweed and blackface tones. Expect the next version of the Tone Master to follow suit. :p
     
  13. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    89
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Location:
    Four Rivers Area of Middle America
    That's interesting...
     
  14. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Holic

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    607
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Location:
    Westminster, CO
    Do you think this will be something other than a 'raw switch' that drops the bass & mid pots out of the circuit?
     
  15. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    50,206
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canuckistan
    I'm thinking pixie dust ;)

    I'm pointing out that what the Tone Master can and should do is arbitrary -- it's what players think is appropriate and that can be a moving target.
     
    Mexitele Blues likes this.
  16. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Holic

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    607
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Location:
    Westminster, CO
    Haha, wow. You cast, I bite.
     
  17. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    50,206
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canuckistan
    Tweed/Blackface in one tube combo is an awesome package. Some other amp makers have done it, but is there any Fender that does that?
     
  18. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Holic

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    607
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Location:
    Westminster, CO
    It's my understanding that the '68 Custom DR & VR purport to have a Bassman-style tone stack on the Normal channel, but the preamp topography is still that of a Black/Silverface.
     
  19. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    50,206
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canuckistan
    yeah, no ceegar there.
     
  20. unixfish

    unixfish Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,437
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Location:
    Northeast Ohio, USA
    Agree. I would never expect a modeller to sound EXACTLY like a tube amp. For that matter, take three blackface DRs, three silverface DRs, and three DRRIs. Guess what? You will have nine distinct sounds, although the DRRI triplet will be very close. Upgrade a speaker? Different sound. Swap tubes? Different sound. Swap resistors / caps? Different sound. And on and on it goes.

    So what is modelling aiming for?

    I would expect the engineers to have a "range of sounds" that are what people classify as a Deluxe Reverb. There is no one DR sound. If a modeller is in that range, then what the heck, call it a DR patch / DR TM and call it a day.

    My guess is we could assemble 100 DRs in various vintages and with various speakers, and we could not agree which one represents "the" DR sound. I am thinking that DR sound is an "in the ballpark of" range, and many have said he TM line is in that ballpark.

    Yeah yeah yeah dynamics and pick attack and feel and sensitivity and compression and sag and bloom and all that. But what is the proper value of those from the 100 vintage DRs we stacked up? How do you measure "feel"?

    I think Fender is saying "If it's close enough, it is". Even the 65 DRRI vs 68 CDR are different sounds, but "close enough" that they share the DR architecture. Even the 65 DRRI patch on my Mustang III is in that same ballpark.

    "It it's close enough, then it is."

    "It it's close enough, then it is."

    "It it's close enough, then it is."
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.