I need help again...

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by daryle, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. daryle

    daryle TDPRI Member

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    Good evening TDPRI community,

    When i play a C note on the A string together with an open D note on the D string, the result is some kind of.... Flabby sounding unpleasant vibration coming from the amp.

    Its as though the speakers are not vibrating properly or something.

    What do you think is the cause of the problem?

    This is what im playing through:
    1) Squier Classic Vibe 50s Tele (All Stock)
    2) 6 foot Silk Road Instrument Cable
    3) Ceriatone 5E8A Tweed Twin
    4) 3 foot Ernie Ball Speaker Cable
    5) 2x12 Pine Cab by Tim Metzger TRM Cabs
    6) Loaded with 2x Weber 12A150Ts (with light dope) wired in series totalling 100 watts of handling

    Nothing else is wrongly set, or faulty as far i can see and check.

    So im pretty sure one of the components is damaged, but not immediately obvious to the naked eye.

    Could it be the speakers? Do they need re-coning? Could it be not enough dope on the speakers? Or could it be that i damaged the magnets when i cranked the amp previously?

    Could it be that the Output Transformer, along with the other smaller components working closely with it, have finally given way, thanks to past carelessness?
     
  2. daryle

    daryle TDPRI Member

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  3. unixfish

    unixfish Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Easy answer - don't play those notes together! :D

    What kind of vibration? My first thought was this is something - like a speaker - that is a bit loose, and you found a resonant frequency that pushes it to vibrate and buzz. However, this could be one of hundreds of things. Or a tube rattling, Or...

    I am curious about why you think some abuse to the amp may have done this.
     
  4. ale.istotle

    ale.istotle Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    To narrow it down:
    - remove everything from the set up except guitar, cable, amp.
    - Try a different cable, try a different guitar if you have one and/or change pickup selection, try a different amp if you have one.
    - try fretting your D note on 3rd string 4th fret.

    Let us know if the sound goes away or changes.
     
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  5. daryle

    daryle TDPRI Member

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    It doesnt go away. If i play a D on the A string together with a E on the D string, i get the same result.

    Basically, a note on the A string, together with a note one step up on the D string, creates the unpleasant result.

    Sorry i dont have another guitar with me right now. The other one is at my workplace.
     
  6. mkdaws32

    mkdaws32 Tele-Afflicted Gold Supporter

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    Can you try a different cab to rule out speaker damage?
     
  7. ale.istotle

    ale.istotle Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Can you listen through headphones to at least see if it's an issue with the speakers? Need to check and eliminate/confirm each part of the system.
     
  8. Crafty Fox

    Crafty Fox Tele-Afflicted

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    This may sound unlikely;
    but I had an buzz issue before that I finally traced to a loose screw on the headstock string guide, which only buzzed on certain notes/frequencies.
     
  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    That interval is not one that is often played together and sustained. I would expect an odd frequency related reaction if this interval is played as a diad and sustained. Some intervals do not work together in some situations. I learned that when I got my Maestro FZ-1 back in the mid ‘60’s. A third does not work well in some distortion situations. That is why a ‘power chord’ is built with the 1st and 5th intervals...those frequencies work together well when driven hard.

    The solution to your problem is to go ahead and hammer on that major third in the C chord...as the lick you were doing calls for. Do not try to make that interval work in a sustained situation.

    There is one situation in which I have used the open D played against that C....but it is part of a full C9 chord type that is built in a specific way to fit in a song I wrote....and it works. The C is not the low note in the chord structure I came up with. The low note is actually the flatted 5th which I used as a passing tone to get to the Fmaj13 key chord. That is the only time I can remember using the second interval one step away from the chord’s first. We usually put the 9th an octave higher to avoid that clash you are hearing.
     
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  10. daryle

    daryle TDPRI Member

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    Well i think i have narrowed it down to the guitar.

    On the suggestion of Ale.istotle and Mkdaws32, I decided to pull out an old Vox Amplug and it produced the same thing, although not as pronounced because of the much smaller speaker size.

    Crafty Fox, I dont think its a loose string tree or guide because there is only on on the CV50s tele and its for the high E and B strings.

    Maybe its just like what Wally said. Some notes simply dont resonate that well when played together.

    I will report back when i get the other guitar out!
     
  11. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Afflicted

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    When has a whole step double-stop in the bottom octave ever sounded good? I don't think this is an equipment issue, but rather an unreasonable expectation.

    Edit: it appears there is some interesting science behind this phenomenon, and it's due to the limitations of the human ear.

    https://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio-webdav/handbook/Critical_Band.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
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  12. daryle

    daryle TDPRI Member

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    Its confirmed.

    Unixfish, Wally and Mexitele Blues are right.

    I just plugged in an MIJ Tele into a Peavey Transtube 112 i had lying around the workplace.

    Same thing happened.

    Cant believe i didnt notice this before.

    Thanks everyone!
     
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  13. teleplayr

    teleplayr Tele-Afflicted

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    Adjust your pickups.
     
  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    play that interval on an acoustic guitar as an experiment.
     
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