I Miss Real Drums, Rhythmic Variation, Song Dynamics . . .
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Of all the things I personally might change about music if I were an iron fisted ruler, drums are near the bottom of the list. GFR were awesome but I think you take that original track and replace with a humanized midi drum tool it’s still a cool song.
String Tree
Doctor of Teleocity
We Hate it because our Kids Love it.
CCK1
Tele-Afflicted
A few years ago, when we were lucky enough to play support for Blackberry Smoke, I think this sticker on one of the BBS road cases sums it up nicely...
Steeley Dan's drum machine was awarded a Grammy.
loopfinding
Friend of Leo's
it is and it isn’t. the platonic ideal of rhythmic accuracy or regularity is very human. it’s just not achievable by the body to the degree we have designed machines - that's why machines are interesting:
a drum machine is not a true replacement for a drummer. you shouldn't write for a drum machine like a drummer (although the opposite of writing for a drummer like a drum machine has a pretty cool uncanny effect, as the minimalists found out after playing with tape machines or synthesizers).
there doesn't need to be an either/or here. trying to make a drum machine a drummer or digitally edit real drumming for perfection is just a misapplication of the technology.
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tfarny
Poster Extraordinaire
That's exactly it, I couldn't say it any better or have anything to add.
Edgar Allan Presley
Friend of Leo's
Boomers say they like rhythmic variation and dynamics, and yet they still like Louie Louie.
Edgar Allan Presley
Friend of Leo's
Wait, you think a drum set wrote that song?
As a home recordist/hobbyist I jumped in with an Alesis SR16 and spent days trying to make it as real as possible, even jacking with quantize and tempo changes. It took some work but got good enough results for what I had to work with. More recently I've been working exclusively with EZDrummer, which is miles better, especially the Nashville kit. I usually start with a set pattern then alter most of them as the track gets built. It's fun work in an OCD, diving into the minutiae way.
Yeah, if I had the space, mics, outboard gear I'd prefer to use a real drummer. But I don't.
I like Beato from all the stuff I've seen, which isn't a whole lot. It's his gig so I can respect his take on things, even if I don't always agree. No musician makes it to 60 without inducing the "OK Boomer" with someone. It goes with the territory these days, I suppose.
Yeah, if I had the space, mics, outboard gear I'd prefer to use a real drummer. But I don't.
I like Beato from all the stuff I've seen, which isn't a whole lot. It's his gig so I can respect his take on things, even if I don't always agree. No musician makes it to 60 without inducing the "OK Boomer" with someone. It goes with the territory these days, I suppose.
Duggo
TDPRI Member
He has said a few times he can listen to and like music he admits is crap because he enjoys listening to the production values. I cannot fathom that.
Manual Slim
Friend of Leo's
I do that too, or almost. I wouldn't say I like something if I know it's crap. But most of my friends listen to stuff I'd never put on myself and instead of sitting there fuming about not being into the music itself I can take what's left over and have fun analyzing it.
I don't have any kids. But I still don't care for it.
Btw, my niece and nephews don't listen to this dance-pop stuff, either.
String Tree
Doctor of Teleocity
Its all about How much is selling, how fast it sells and, who is doing the Buying.
aging_rocker
Friend of Leo's
Absolutely. The majority of the music I like doesn't get much radio play, never did (John Peel being one notable exception)
Gotta dig the good stuff out, it's there in EVERY genre and era, but the crap which tries to drown it out is daunting.
Drums and drum machines are two different instruments, unless you are Jaki Liebezeit
:
Who or whatever wrote that song couldn't have been sentient, so a drum set is as likely any other possibility.
bottlenecker
Poster Extraordinaire
I've always loved played rhythm. Live, loose, wild, or crazy tight pockets. There's something about people playing in crazy tight pockets though, it's not just machanically on time, because I've never heard programming get there. It's not just accuracy.
So I get burned out quick on electronic rhythm. But sometimes it's cool.
But you know what is not ever cool? Software drums that sound like a real, generic rock drummer.
It's a robot girlfriend.
I might like your home recorded song in spite of it, but it's yucky. I'd much rather hear you bang a tamburine and some lumber, to a click if you must, or just sound like kraftwerk.
Or make hip hop.
They didn't have drummers, and they made it cool, not fake.
So I get burned out quick on electronic rhythm. But sometimes it's cool.
But you know what is not ever cool? Software drums that sound like a real, generic rock drummer.
It's a robot girlfriend.
I might like your home recorded song in spite of it, but it's yucky. I'd much rather hear you bang a tamburine and some lumber, to a click if you must, or just sound like kraftwerk.
Or make hip hop.
They didn't have drummers, and they made it cool, not fake.
loudboy
Tele-Holic
Exactly. Drum machines sound like drum machines. If you use them like that, it's all good.
buster poser
Poster Extraordinaire
"Drum machine" is also a bit of a red herring. Since that kind of thing is mostly done (if it's done) via DAW now vs some discrete unit, if it sounds rigid, it's because they want it to. What is possible in software is pretty amazing in terms of 'loosening' the feel. My guess is that most of the patterns with any of the .agr/"Grooves" quantizations applied that Ableton ships with would (and probably does) fool the overwhelming majority of us.
SRHmusic
Tele-Afflicted
Yeah, I more don't like the practice of quantizing or snapping everything to a grid more than drum machines per se. I understand there are drum systems that attempt to 'humanize' with some push and pull, but I hadn't heard one that approaches what a good drummer can do.
But a good musician can get a groove going with/against a decent drum track. It's about the push and pull against the time, how I hear it anyway. Similarly vocal pitch correction is really annoying compared to the nuances a good singer brings. Beato has more videos on all that if you care to watch him.
Still, decent grooving tunes can be made with good placement of notes, esp. the bass, so I agree it's up to the musicians to create with the tools they have. Seems most of these issues are heavily driven by the producers and the business side.
But a good musician can get a groove going with/against a decent drum track. It's about the push and pull against the time, how I hear it anyway. Similarly vocal pitch correction is really annoying compared to the nuances a good singer brings. Beato has more videos on all that if you care to watch him.
Still, decent grooving tunes can be made with good placement of notes, esp. the bass, so I agree it's up to the musicians to create with the tools they have. Seems most of these issues are heavily driven by the producers and the business side.
