I Miss Real Drums, Rhythmic Variation, Song Dynamics . . .

Killing Floor

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And a drum machine didn't write "We're An American Band".
Of all the things I personally might change about music if I were an iron fisted ruler, drums are near the bottom of the list. GFR were awesome but I think you take that original track and replace with a humanized midi drum tool it’s still a cool song.
 

String Tree

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I've been stuck trying to figure out why contemporary pop music, in large part, doesn't interest me. For awhile I suspected that I was just getting old and conservative in my taste. However, I sort of knew that wasn't the case, but I couldn't really express why. Today I discovered this video while I was drinking coffee. I think Beato sums up a lot of the problems with the state of pop music.


We Hate it because our Kids Love it.
 

CCK1

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A few years ago, when we were lucky enough to play support for Blackberry Smoke, I think this sticker on one of the BBS road cases sums it up nicely...
No_Soul.jpg
 

loopfinding

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Perfection is inhuman.

it is and it isn’t. the platonic ideal of rhythmic accuracy or regularity is very human. it’s just not achievable by the body to the degree we have designed machines - that's why machines are interesting:



a drum machine is not a true replacement for a drummer. you shouldn't write for a drum machine like a drummer (although the opposite of writing for a drummer like a drum machine has a pretty cool uncanny effect, as the minimalists found out after playing with tape machines or synthesizers).

there doesn't need to be an either/or here. trying to make a drum machine a drummer or digitally edit real drumming for perfection is just a misapplication of the technology.
 
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tfarny

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The really puzzling thing as has been said here repeatedly during multiple iterations of "boo drum machines and also the pop music" threads is that the most narrow slice of music we all seek is out there and more accessible to us, the prospective listener, than ever. I promise that whatever specific blue/country/soul/rawk itch you have is out there being scratched, likely by some 25yo who stumbled onto Sam & Dave or Bob Wills via the Internet.

Who cares what's popular or on the radio? If we want to listen to good music, however we define that, we should go find it, no? Indicting "today's music" broadly marks one as an ignoramus who approaches music so passively they can't be bothered to use a search field or try anything new beyond what is fed to them/the genres & artists they liked age 17-25. Gotta say it's hard to take opinions from such folks very seriously.
That's exactly it, I couldn't say it any better or have anything to add.
 

Lou Tencodpees

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As a home recordist/hobbyist I jumped in with an Alesis SR16 and spent days trying to make it as real as possible, even jacking with quantize and tempo changes. It took some work but got good enough results for what I had to work with. More recently I've been working exclusively with EZDrummer, which is miles better, especially the Nashville kit. I usually start with a set pattern then alter most of them as the track gets built. It's fun work in an OCD, diving into the minutiae way.

Yeah, if I had the space, mics, outboard gear I'd prefer to use a real drummer. But I don't.

I like Beato from all the stuff I've seen, which isn't a whole lot. It's his gig so I can respect his take on things, even if I don't always agree. No musician makes it to 60 without inducing the "OK Boomer" with someone. It goes with the territory these days, I suppose.
 

Duggo

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I agree with the premise of the video. I also agree with the poster a few above that Rick has done some complete garbage music as well. Also his musical tastes are quirky. Dont know another guy that claims to listen to the Beatles and Taylor Swift.
He has said a few times he can listen to and like music he admits is crap because he enjoys listening to the production values. I cannot fathom that.
 

Manual Slim

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He has said a few times he can listen to and like music he admits is crap because he enjoys listening to the production values. I cannot fathom that.
I do that too, or almost. I wouldn't say I like something if I know it's crap. But most of my friends listen to stuff I'd never put on myself and instead of sitting there fuming about not being into the music itself I can take what's left over and have fun analyzing it.
 

aging_rocker

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...Who cares what's popular or on the radio? If we want to listen to good music, however we define that, we should go find it, no?...
Absolutely. The majority of the music I like doesn't get much radio play, never did (John Peel being one notable exception)

Gotta dig the good stuff out, it's there in EVERY genre and era, but the crap which tries to drown it out is daunting.

Drums and drum machines are two different instruments, unless you are Jaki Liebezeit :cool: :
 

bottlenecker

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I've always loved played rhythm. Live, loose, wild, or crazy tight pockets. There's something about people playing in crazy tight pockets though, it's not just machanically on time, because I've never heard programming get there. It's not just accuracy.

So I get burned out quick on electronic rhythm. But sometimes it's cool.

But you know what is not ever cool? Software drums that sound like a real, generic rock drummer.
It's a robot girlfriend.
I might like your home recorded song in spite of it, but it's yucky. I'd much rather hear you bang a tamburine and some lumber, to a click if you must, or just sound like kraftwerk.
Or make hip hop.
They didn't have drummers, and they made it cool, not fake.
 

buster poser

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"Drum machine" is also a bit of a red herring. Since that kind of thing is mostly done (if it's done) via DAW now vs some discrete unit, if it sounds rigid, it's because they want it to. What is possible in software is pretty amazing in terms of 'loosening' the feel. My guess is that most of the patterns with any of the .agr/"Grooves" quantizations applied that Ableton ships with would (and probably does) fool the overwhelming majority of us.
 

SRHmusic

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Yeah, I more don't like the practice of quantizing or snapping everything to a grid more than drum machines per se. I understand there are drum systems that attempt to 'humanize' with some push and pull, but I hadn't heard one that approaches what a good drummer can do.

But a good musician can get a groove going with/against a decent drum track. It's about the push and pull against the time, how I hear it anyway. Similarly vocal pitch correction is really annoying compared to the nuances a good singer brings. Beato has more videos on all that if you care to watch him.

Still, decent grooving tunes can be made with good placement of notes, esp. the bass, so I agree it's up to the musicians to create with the tools they have. Seems most of these issues are heavily driven by the producers and the business side.
 




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