No kidding. Best thread on this topic I’ve seen.
I honestly can't hear a difference between tube and solid state amps.
- Thread starter TheCheapGuitarist
- Start date
teletail
Friend of Leo's
I’m not sure what the SS vs tube debate has to do with pleasing the audience since 99% or more don’t notice or care. No reason you can’t please yourself AND the audience. ;-)
I used to use my Vox amp as a cook stove.
Mr Perch
Tele-Afflicted
That video is an eye-opener. I, like the rest of you, have watched a gazillion videos that purport to analyze the role of various components in producing tone. I think I generally bought the product that had the best guitarist doing the demo.
gitlvr
Friend of Leo's
I'm pretty sure I've commented on this thread already, but I'll add a bit more.
I do not care whether an amp is tube or solid state. I gigged for 30 years give or take, and never had the "luxury".
I was a working musician with a wife and family, money was tight and around here if you play in more than a 3 piece band, enjoy that happy meal you bought on the way home from the proceeds of the gig you just played.
All I ever cared about was if I could get "my tone" from it. I played what I had til it broke, and bought what I could find that was usable and affordable to replace it when the time came. Sometimes that was a tube amp, sometimes solid state, depending what our finances were at the time.
I have loved them both, for different reasons, but I ALWAYS managed to sound "like me" through every one of them. So I just shut up and played. YMMV.
I do not care whether an amp is tube or solid state. I gigged for 30 years give or take, and never had the "luxury".
I was a working musician with a wife and family, money was tight and around here if you play in more than a 3 piece band, enjoy that happy meal you bought on the way home from the proceeds of the gig you just played.
All I ever cared about was if I could get "my tone" from it. I played what I had til it broke, and bought what I could find that was usable and affordable to replace it when the time came. Sometimes that was a tube amp, sometimes solid state, depending what our finances were at the time.
I have loved them both, for different reasons, but I ALWAYS managed to sound "like me" through every one of them. So I just shut up and played. YMMV.
That video was really cool.
Blrfl
Friend of Leo's
That's the best thing I've seen on the subject... ever. That's essential science and it cuts through so much of the BS that flows through these threads.
1) I'm certainly guilty of that, especially when the video gear demo thing was 'new'.
2) I can make any POS pedal, amp or guitar sound good in the context of a gear demo.
Consequently I don't trust any video demos anymore regardless of the alleged integrity of the player. Even my friends and colleagues.
sax4blues
Poster Extraordinaire
The analogy I've heard is the chef doesn't buy a $1,000 knife for the customer, he buys it because he likes it and enjoys his work with it. That may or may not result in a different taste for the diner.
DocHelliday
TDPRI Member
That dude and Johan Segeborn have basically put the nail in the coffin of a lot of this debate.
It always feels like I'm talking to one of those dudes from Ghost Hunters when the topic of tubes comes up with guitar players.
Meanwhile poor bass players are having to go direct at 99% of shows nowadays.
DocHelliday
TDPRI Member
IDK if anyone has mentioned this but... what about the "peace of mind" factor?
I mostly play in jump-around punk bands but you look at someone line Dex Romweber of the Flat Duo Jets and he's been rocking a Randall RG-80 forever.
Is it possible that a performance can be negatively affected by the mind's "oh crap did I leave the oven on" thoughts?
Could be similar to "oh crap what if a tube goes out?"
and
Visa versa
If someone has a simple Tube Amp>Tuner>Guitar setup and it's never let them down...
Maybe that's freeing up space in the performers CPU sorta speak and allowing them to give a more carefree performance or at least not be worrying about the tools and just the technique?
I mostly play in jump-around punk bands but you look at someone line Dex Romweber of the Flat Duo Jets and he's been rocking a Randall RG-80 forever.
Is it possible that a performance can be negatively affected by the mind's "oh crap did I leave the oven on" thoughts?
Could be similar to "oh crap what if a tube goes out?"
and
Visa versa
If someone has a simple Tube Amp>Tuner>Guitar setup and it's never let them down...
Maybe that's freeing up space in the performers CPU sorta speak and allowing them to give a more carefree performance or at least not be worrying about the tools and just the technique?
That is a real thing for me. I used to stash an extra set of tubes in my trunk just in case. But then, what if you have different amps for different venue sizes? And how many of what kind of tubes.
I love having a stable rig now. Same pedals for a long time. Roland JC77. I have 2. I had one serviced by the best tech in town (note, not the priciest). He kinda laughed and said "don't bring me the second one, I feel bad charging you my bench fee, as the first one needed nothing." Just so he didn't feel like he charged me for nothing (which I would not have felt) he changed the main amplification chip for a supposedly lower noise floor one . . . and could detect no change.
But yeah, I'm tired of thinking about how to dial gear in. So I love the freedom of just dropping my tiny board on the floor, turning the same amp on and thinking about the songs, my bandmates and the room.
ucnick
Tele-Meister
I hear ya.
BTW, computer chips are composed of transistors and diodes as well. Ultimately, ALL things digital are analog at a low enough level. They are just quantized, and the amount of quantization determines how closely the digitized signal represents the original analog signal.
A very large number of very, very small samples is equivalent to an analog signal - at a certain point they become indistinguishable.
Just sayin'. YMMV.
The Angle
Tele-Afflicted
Tried one at GC and thought it was terrific, but not enough of an improvement over the BCH - if any improvement at all - to pry me away from that Boss Drive Special. That's no slam against the Cub. If I didn't already have the BCH, I'd probably be looking for a Cub.
DocHelliday
TDPRI Member
I feel like this has got to be a factor for either side of the coin.
If you've had a non-reliable amp and then replaced it for a different style of amp. It's like being a baby duck, you've imprinted on whichever was the negative experience for you.
For me I know it is a factor. I mostly play Danelectro Convertible guitars live but my performance is more wild with the guitar equiped with JUST a lipstick pickup
but
with my newer one it has a piezo going to a second channel and when I see videos of myself I'm more subdued with that guitar.
I'm sure in the back of my mind I'm thinking better not get TOO crazy, what if I knock a wire loose with the piezo or something.
teletail
Friend of Leo's
I wouldn't argue with that, but the post I was answering was, "When I was 'performing' I cared more about the audience's pleasure, wants and needs." Whether or not it was the intent, the implication is that somehow you couldn't satisfy both, or that in order to satisfy the audience you had to sublimate your own wants. It's a false dichotomy since the audience doesn't care.
chris m.
Doctor of Teleocity
Good point. For me it's all about live vs. recorded. Lots of people can hear a dramatic difference between a .wav file and a .mp3 file. I don't really notice it that much at all. I think my brain automatically fills in the blanks. Both .wav and .mp3 files are usually digital approximations of the original recordings (whether the recordings were analog or digital). But they sound fine to me.I hear ya.
BTW, computer chips are composed of transistors and diodes as well. Ultimately, ALL things digital are analog at a low enough level. They are just quantized, and the amount of quantization determines how closely the digitized signal represents the original analog signal.
A very large number of very, very small samples is equivalent to an analog signal - at a certain point they become indistinguishable.
Just sayin'. YMMV.
But the weird thing with guitar amps is that's where I hear the differences-- live, in the room. Not recorded--I've had awesome results with direct digital recording.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with the speakers, cabinets, etc. The best explanation I've heard is that the digital modelers are modeling the sound that comes out of the guitar amp speaker...so it ends up sounding more like a recording of that sound rather than the actual sound. All I know is that so far the modelers I've tried haven't been able to give me as full of a tone, but I admit some of that's probably on me. I was only willing to mess with tweaking settings and trying different IRs up to a point. Getting an FRFR, closed-back rig to sound just like an open-backed guitar amp combo does, live in the room, with the guitar amp's mid-range focused, unique-sounding "British" or "American" guitar amp speaker is no small challenge.
I am in the opinion (with some electronic background to go with it) that tube equipment can sound different than SS (not modelled) circuits. It is not a gross thing and may not be noticeable in some types of playing. I also think that the characteristics of a tube amp is known well enough that SS amps can be made to get close enough that it may pass the sniff test for most. But modelling amps have leapfrogged over building a tube like SS amp in that you can have a reasonable recreation along with a number of others in the same amp. So other than Quilter there really is no one putting in a great effort in doing so.
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