I have a theory about American Cars....

[imwjl]

The annual Consumer Reports car issue and articles are out. It's always interesting whether or not you like the publication because of methodology and time. Also because they are a consistent measure of test scores, satisfaction and reliability. They measure a huge swath of vehicles for 10 years.

Sadly, the reliability reflects other data and news where I really wish the domestics could get their recalls down and quality back up. Always interesting is where you see the quality and reliability are either not important to some, or possibly what people can afford when they buy new.

Clearly price is not what solely has people choose problematic brands. Most in the reliability hall of shame that includes Jeep, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, GMC and Land Rover are not bargain/value purchases. Chevrolet ahead of GMC seems to be from the broader Chevy lineup that includes cars or CarUV and BEVs.

Except for BMW's niche brand Mini, the tops for reliability survey are all Japanese and Korean brands. It's a chuckle for me about our species to look at the brands with simultaneous high satisfaction and poor reliability.

FYI, if you don't have a paid subscription, those with Apple News+ have access.

 

[blowtorch]

I'll only ever buy domestic, which is a little goofy since I only ever buy used, but still, my contribution for creating a demand , even on the used side, is all domestic.

My dad fought in Korea, and I'm pretty sure he felt buying a foreign branded auto was tatamount to being a traitor to your country


ymmv

 

[Recce]

There hasn't been a really good truck built since 1999 in my opinion. Ford screwed up their motors with bad engineering and so did Chevy with 5.3L being one of their worst and don't even get me started on their fuel management systems. Dodge hasn't done anything right since the '79 Power Wagon and I am surprised they even exist today.

As for cars, the last good American cars have been the Ford Panther platforms (Town Car, Grand Marquis, Crown Victoria) and Buick Park Avenues....all of which are gone today.

I miss what AMC had going for them...great engineers who built vehicles with ease of maintenance in mind expecting the owner to do most of it themselves. They couldn't keep up with the others in the style department due to lower profits, but there are no vehicles built today that come close to allowing the owner to handle most repairs....not even some mechanics.

Not really sure what your talking about I’ve had two 5.3’s that have beer bullet proof.

 

[getbent]

I have been lucky with cars. I've loved pretty much all of them and they have all been super reliable.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I'll only ever buy domestic

Just curious on how you define that...and this is not an adversarial question. If you mean by ownership, that would only leave GM and Ford, but as has been likely noted a lot in comments, a large amount of the content in their vehicles is not made in the US and some models are not manufactured in the US. The auto industry has really evolved to a global thing. I don't drive a GM or Ford, but my vehicle was manufactured in Indiana by US workers with X% of content made in the US and the rest sourced elsewhere just like with GM and Ford. 'Tis a very complicated thing!!!

 

[blowtorch]

'Tis a very complicated thing!!!

It's not really all that complicated if you look at it thusly:

Do you want to give money to an American company... or a company from another country?

Not to be all jingoistic or whatevs, but I do believe in supporting where you live, when you have the option

 

[RoscoeElegante]

Had an '88 Dodge Grand Caravan that was great. Bought it very used, put a good 25K miles on it w/ few/normal problems, but a drunk driver totaled it. At that point, it was worth all of $575, so I got the big $75 after our deductible. I thought that, for its era, it was designed quite well and built pretty well. But I also had friends with the same model, even the same year, who had lemons.

Beyond that....
*'74 Vega (ruined my respect for GM)
*'74 Gremlin (a good idea for Honda to get right with its Civic hatchbacks)
*'92 Dodge Caravan (lemon)
*'88 Taurus (super lemon)
*Inherited dad's '72 Chysler Newport (ran great, but rust unstoppably ate it while its powertrain was still fine) and his
*'89 Mercury Cougar (very well-made, but had to sell it w/ only 75K on it, so I can't vouch for its long-term reliability).

That's 7 American cars. 4 of which sucked.

By contrast,
*'77 Datsun pickup, to haul the rowboat or canoe to fishing destinations. A wheeze-mobile, but easy to work on. And so useful.
*A new '86 Honda Civic hatchback. Bought the lifetime muffler replacement dealio, which it needed, as we had it for 12+ years. New clutch and brakes along the way, but otherwise perfectly reliable. Running fine when it left. It was the Gremlin done right!
*A '92 Mazda 626. Bad trunk seals, but lived a long life. Running fine when it left.
*For a daughter, a very used '92(?) Civic sedan. Also very reliable.
*For another daughter, a (very used) '94?(?) Nissan Sentra. Very reliable.
*A very used '95 Toyota Sienna van. Very good, until its gaskets and master brake cylinder abruptly failed. 230K miles when it died. So, yeah.
*For a daughter, a new 2011 Hyundai Santa Fe. 95K miles, not stolen yet, and has been completely reliable.
*A very used '05 Honda Odyssey. Had been neglected, so it needed work, and then a rod blew, so it needed a replacement engine. But absolutely our best vehicle ever. A perfect design, at least for our needs. The replacement engine had 40K on it, and we've added 8K since. So still a newbie. 190K on the vehicle as a whole.
*An ex-wife had a 2008 Subaru Outback. Kinda cramped, and expensive repairs here and there. But I can see why people love them. Just OK, to me.

So that's 9 foreign cars/trucks. All of them very good to excellent. Even the flimsy Datsun pickup did what it was designed to do for about 25 years

And even though I'd dearly love to buy American cars--I'm from a Rust Belt city that's really suffered from our auto industry's implosion--I dunno. A very gear-headed engineer friend has a 2015(?) Chrysler Town & Country that's been "flawless" for them after 175K miles. So, yeah, American cars seem kinda hit-or-miss. And since I bought only a few of all these cars new, dunno how valid any of these comparisons are for me.

Sorry for the long road trip 'round one person's memory lane, but I've got to grade papers and my soul wants to hit the road, instead. Even if that means pushing that damn Taurus (which I loved when it ran) up Slouch-Standard Hill again.....

 

[Telecastoff1]

I love American made cars and trucks. I had a few foreign cars for short periods of time, but always went back to American made. They're more familiar under the hood for me, and easy to work on, for the most part. I sold my 2003 GMC Yukon six months ago, great body, minimum rust and 334K miles on the engine and tranny. And still running great when I sold it. I just wanted a similar vehicle, a bit newer and with less miles. So, I bought a 2007 Chev Suburban with only 75K miles on it. My Mustang is in winter storage right now, and will come out of hibernation in a few weeks, then will become my daily driver again until November. Yep, I love these American made vehicles.

 

[trapdoor2]

1969 C-10 Custom 396...long bed, factory AC, power steering but no power brakes. Great truck! I need to drive her more. She'll be getting power discs and maybe a posi. Nothing else.

 

[JIMMY JAZZMAN]

How about the other side, like the crappy Jeep Patriots. Bad everything. Electrical, mechanical, just plain
junk. Have a great day.

 

[goonie]

About ten years ago, I was issued a new Ford Fusion for work. Probably the '13 model. Man, that was a freakin' solid car. Peppy. Comfortable. Fine interior. Cool, understated exterior. No mechanical problems. And so of course, they were discontinued. Sigh.

View attachment 1079294

I have a 2018 wagon... They're called the Mondeo here. Incredibly safe, powerful, roomy people hauler. The only thing I miss is AWD in the wet. And it actually handles! Goes around corners on rails and doesn't waft and wallow around like the 'trucks' that everyone seems to favour these days. They gave me a Ford Ranger one day while the Mondeo was being serviced. What a crude, noisy, roly poly piece of crap it was.

And yes such a damn shame you can't buy the Fusion/Mondeo new anymore. Mine's due for replacement and it looks like a choice between Passat Alltrack and Outback XT.

 

[imwjl]

When "domestic" is mentioned one should consider the brand and the content. Brand ownership is very much international though headquarters are obviously in a set place. Content is and sales volume of the vehicle are the really important measures if you are concerned about economic benefits close to home.

It is also important to consider the tangential economic activity with a large manufacturing plant. They fuel huge amounts of employment and value added beyond who gets a paycheck from working in the plant.

The American University does a great annual study on the content and I always enjoy seeing it. Last year major European, Korean and Japanese brands all increased their US content while GM, Ford, and Stellantis dropped their domestic sourcing. Some of what many think is American is laughable if you dig into it. The full-sized GM Silverados for example are in low 40s % while some high volume Hondas are 70%.

The Mustang GT and Corvette have topped lists but they are very low volume vehicles. Tesla has been near the top and of significance because their most popular models have become top sellers.

My wife and I have used those domestic content stickers on new cars or that report. Some products I think of as so American are less so than Japanese brand vehicles we bought that were made in TN, KY and IN. The now decades old investments in TN and KY have been amazing regardless of brand.

We chose support more hourly workers near home and get superior vehicles at same time.

 

[OlRedNeckHippy]

360,000 miles were on my 1989 GMC 2500 odd ball when I sold it. Bought it new. A heavy half, if you will. 3/4 rating with a 6 lug bolt pattern. 11" drums on the rear.
That truck lived in AZ, had been in Mexico, and was in NJ when it left me.
Multiple water pumps, alternators, radiators, etc, but still had the original intake manifold gasket. Awesome motor, the 350.
I loved that truck.

 

[getbent]

When "domestic" is mentioned one should consider the brand and the content. Brand ownership is very much international though headquarters are obviously in a set place. Content is and sales volume of the vehicle are the really important measures if you are concerned about economic benefits close to home.

It is also important to consider the tangential economic activity with a large manufacturing plant. They fuel huge amounts of employment and value added beyond who gets a paycheck from working in the plant.

The American University does a great annual study on the content and I always enjoy seeing it. Last year major European, Korean and Japanese brands all increased their US content while GM, Ford, and Stellantis dropped their domestic sourcing. Some of what many think is American is laughable if you dig into it. The full-sized GM Silverados for example are in low 40s % while some high volume Hondas are 70%.

The Mustang GT and Corvette have topped lists but they are very low volume vehicles. Tesla has been near the top and of significance because their most popular models have become top sellers.

My wife and I have used those domestic content stickers on new cars or that report. Some products I think of as so American are less so than Japanese brand vehicles we bought that were made in TN, KY and IN. The now decades old investments in TN and KY have been amazing regardless of brand.

We chose support more hourly workers near home and get superior vehicles at same time.

Facts, bro, are not gonna move the needle.

I wish you were closer, I'd buy you a couple of really, really good drinks. and we could enjoy a, finally, sunny afternoon!

 

[Jim_in_PA]

It's not really all that complicated if you look at it thusly:

Do you want to give money to an American company... or a company from another country?

Not to be all jingoistic or whatevs, but I do believe in supporting where you live, when you have the option

It really is more complicated than that...the only companies that are "American" in top ownership today are GM and Ford...plus startups like Tesla, Rivian, etc. GM's current ownership is 50% to China. That means that Ford is the only big manufacturer that is fully US owned. That's all I'm saying. Few choices are left. And I do endeavor to support US manufacturers of stuff when that's possible and practical to do.

 

[blowtorch]

It really is more complicated than that...the only companies that are "American" in top ownership today are GM and Ford...plus startups like Tesla, Rivian, etc. GM's current ownership is 50% to China. That means that Ford is the only big manufacturer that is fully US owned. That's all I'm saying. Few choices are left. And I do endeavor to support US manufacturers of stuff when that's possible and practical to do.

It's still simple for me.
I'll buy domestic.
Easy peasey.


You can make it a more complex issue to justify your choices, if it helps you feel better about them... I don't care.

Not being antagonistic, just telling it as I see it

 

[68tele]

IDGAF where my vehicle is made - it has to be reliable and affordable. 3 Hyundais I have owned have been bulletproof.

 

[0SubSeanik0]

My American car is a Toyota RAV 4... my previous American car was a Honda Accord. Both the most dependable autos I've ever owned.

 

[imwjl]

It really is more complicated than that...the only companies that are "American" in top ownership today are GM and Ford...plus startups like Tesla, Rivian, etc. GM's current ownership is 50% to China. That means that Ford is the only big manufacturer that is fully US owned. That's all I'm saying. Few choices are left. And I do endeavor to support US manufacturers of stuff when that's possible and practical to do.

Yes, ownership is a complicated and at times deceptive matter but not what high value and high wage jobs do.

 

[markal]

I’ve never owned an American brand, but it seems less relevant these days. Pretty sure my Subarus were built in Indiana. And they have been very reliable but I didn’t drive any of them for all that long before trading in (155k miles on a 2005 Outback, 85k miles on 2014 Forester).

And we had a 2002 Honda Civic that we sold in 2015. 13 years, 145k miles, and not a single problem.

I’m coveting a mid-size 4x4 these days and if I go that route I’ll look at the GMC Canyon and Ford Ranger, maybe the new Bronco (though I hear they have a lot of reliability issues).