I have a theory about American Cars....

[Wrighty]

Modern, or post 90s, cars seem to be more reliable than previously. I see for fewer broken downs at the side of the road with steam rising from the open bonnet than I did when i started driving in the early 70s. The down side is that their complexity nowadays is making DIY repairs harder, if not impossible and, if a major component does fail it tends to knock out everything from the engine management to the wipers! Not only that but, because they are more reliable, even the main dealers seem to have cut back on their spares holdings.
My company van is a 2016 Fiat, reliable and drives well but, when the airbag warning light came on, it took eight weeks to get the sensor that had caused the spurious activation. Vehicle out of use for a £20, ten minute fit, part.

 

[MarkieMark]

I have to humor the point where a thread that began discussing American car quality devolves into German car bashing.

Modern, or post 90s, cars seem to be more reliable than previously. I see for fewer broken downs at the side of the road with steam rising from the open bonnet than I did when i started driving in the early 70s. The down side is that their complexity nowadays is making DIY repairs harder, if not impossible and, if a major component does fail it tends to knock out everything from the engine management to the wipers! Not only that but, because they are more reliable, even the main dealers seem to have cut back on their spares holdings.
My company van is a 2016 Fiat, reliable and drives well but, when the airbag warning light came on, it took eight weeks to get the sensor that had caused the spurious activation. Vehicle out of use for a £20, ten minute fit, part.

Tip of the iceberg.
But yes, for example when I began my career in automotive service, a vehicle with 100K miles and/or~10 yrs. old was widely considered worn-out and destined for the scrap yard.
Even if we have simply doubled that since the 60's/70' that is pretty amazing to think about. And the credit goes to many improvements.
But yet...

The complexity of modern features isn't the only problem though.
My biggest beefs could be described as a lack of concern over serviceable designs, and that design is nearly entirely based on economic assembly and surviving the warranty period at minimal expense. IE: It is a priority to be assembled quickly and easily with relatively low skill levels and out the door and sold, beholden more onto the shareholder than the long term or repeat consumer.
And as @Wrighty alludes to- "Just in time" assembly line component supply spread into the parts network and has been a major contributor to many of the problems we see today. It has been proven to be a myopic business practice.

I could list a hundred basic examples of simply unnecessarily stupid designs that lacked basic foresight and would have cost NOTHING to simply consider how they fit or were accessed in situ. It is often clear that design/engineering teams simply didnt communicate well on interfacing their portions of overall design.
Simple example. The lowly air filter. Consider that after the oil filter it should be the second most accessed and inspected service item on an IC vehicle. Yet they get buried, obstructed and incorperated into assemblies that require far too much time and effort to access and even simply inspect. Now consider that while a specific car may require difficult removal, the service industry still pays the "technician" based on a time when it was simply a lid on top with a wingnut... Seriously!
And I avoid calling out brands and such for several reasons in these discussions, but based on my experience, technicians in some other countries certainly must get paid differently than I have in my career. There are certainly brands that I would have less of a distaste for if I got paid differently for working on them. As a result, its more- "I HATE working on... Those!"
And then there is the issue of expectation differences from certain consumers of certain brands, but that's a whole other subject...

Then there is the flawed design concepts of incorporating too many functions into a central "module" that is very pricy to replace.
Dear consumer. It is not my fault the fuel pump relay is incorporated into the circuit board of a central module that costs $1K to replace. I am not "ripping you off" and I am not "getting rich" off of this crap.

Another general example. The advent and inclusion of LED lighting in automobiles.
In theory, brilliant. (No pun intended)
They should last the life of the vehicle. Period.
Nope. In part because of the "lowest bidder" supply chain problem, and in part because of crap connections and circuit boards, they fail far too frequently.
And between the ridiculous cost of what is now an unserviceable assembly, and the further trend toward "building the vehicle around" now difficult to access said components, they cost a fortune when they fail and mr consumer again spouts I am a rip-off. Take that a step further for projector beam (etc) self-aiming electronic wizardry headlight assemblies. A bulb? Expensive! If a bulb takes out a ballast, add some zeros and wish it was just a bulb. And assembly? Often thousands.
I recently waited 6 months for a back-ordered unavailable headlight assembly for an otherwise very nice clean low mileage sedan. Because it is a somewhat rare model, that has suffered the current trend of being discontinued, (Buick BTW, nothing exotic) There was also nothing on the used market. I had a team of people scour nationwide for an in-stock new or used assembly.
Customer gave up. Ditched the car. Went to wholesale auction because it can't pass state inspection due to a broken headlight lens/housing.

I didn't build it. I didn't buy it. I didn't break it.
Just a guy trying to make a modest living fixing what I can.
(And for what it's worth, the entire auto industry has become an embarrassment IMO)
Rant over.

 

[AmpHandle]

People say "this is my last vehicle" yea until it breaks.

 

[flathd]

Don't know which mine were. Just know they worked and didn't take coffee breaks.

The trannies never failed, either — even though three-on-the-tree was never meant for interstates!

My neighbor had a Dodge Dart, 63? with inline six. No 3 on the tree, it had the 3 push buttons on the dash! Maybe 4 if you include reverse.

 

[Matt Sarad]

2008 Tacoma.
226,500 miles.
Drove it from Bakersfield to Iowa a few years ago. then to Portland OR.
regular maintenance at the dealer seems to be the key.
Rotors just replaced the first time. Ditto for tranny gasket and fluid.
Looking to go 400+k.

 

[Mike Eskimo]

As a born/bred Detroiter , though I have much to say on the empty term “American Cars”, I’ll let this “should be 4 pages max“ thread ramble on !

 

[MarkieMark]

As a born/bred Detroiter , though I have much to say on the empty term “American Cars”, I’ll let this “should be 4 pages max“ thread ramble on !

Long time gone Mike.
Long time.

 

[flathd]

I have to humor the point where a thread that began discussing American car quality devolves into German car bashing.


Tip of the iceberg.
But yes, for example when I began my career in automotive service, a vehicle with 100K miles and/or~10 yrs. old was widely considered worn-out and destined for the scrap yard.
Even if we have simply doubled that since the 60's/70' that is pretty amazing to think about. And the credit goes to many improvements.
But yet...

The complexity of modern features isn't the only problem though.
My biggest beefs could be described as a lack of concern over serviceable designs, and that design is nearly entirely based on economic assembly and surviving the warranty period at minimal expense. IE: It is a priority to be assembled quickly and easily with relatively low skill levels and out the door and sold, beholden more onto the shareholder than the long term or repeat consumer.
And as @Wrighty alludes to- "Just in time" assembly line component supply spread into the parts network and has been a major contributor to many of the problems we see today. It has been proven to be a myopic business practice.

I could list a hundred basic examples of simply unnecessarily stupid designs that lacked basic foresight and would have cost NOTHING to simply consider how they fit or were accessed in situ. It is often clear that design/engineering teams simply didnt communicate well on interfacing their portions of overall design.
Simple example. The lowly air filter. Consider that after the oil filter it should be the second most accessed and inspected service item on an IC vehicle. Yet they get buried, obstructed and incorperated into assemblies that require far too much time and effort to access and even simply inspect. Now consider that while a specific car may require difficult removal, the service industry still pays the "technician" based on a time when it was simply a lid on top with a wingnut... Seriously!
And I avoid calling out brands and such for several reasons in these discussions, but based on my experience, technicians in some other countries certainly must get paid differently than I have in my career. There are certainly brands that I would have less of a distaste for if I got paid differently for working on them. As a result, its more- "I HATE working on... Those!"
And then there is the issue of expectation differences from certain consumers of certain brands, but that's a whole other subject...

Then there is the flawed design concepts of incorporating too many functions into a central "module" that is very pricy to replace.
Dear consumer. It is not my fault the fuel pump relay is incorporated into the circuit board of a central module that costs $1K to replace. I am not "ripping you off" and I am not "getting rich" off of this crap.

Another general example. The advent and inclusion of LED lighting in automobiles.
In theory, brilliant. (No pun intended)
They should last the life of the vehicle. Period.
Nope. In part because of the "lowest bidder" supply chain problem, and in part because of crap connections and circuit boards, they fail far too frequently.
And between the ridiculous cost of what is now an unserviceable assembly, and the further trend toward "building the vehicle around" now difficult to access said components, they cost a fortune when they fail and mr consumer again spouts I am a rip-off. Take that a step further for projector beam (etc) self-aiming electronic wizardry headlight assemblies. A bulb? Expensive! If a bulb takes out a ballast, add some zeros and wish it was just a bulb. And assembly? Often thousands.
I recently waited 6 months for a back-ordered unavailable headlight assembly for an otherwise very nice clean low mileage sedan. Because it is a somewhat rare model, that has suffered the current trend of being discontinued, (Buick BTW, nothing exotic) There was also nothing on the used market. I had a team of people scour nationwide for an in-stock new or used assembly.
Customer gave up. Ditched the car. Went to wholesale auction because it can't pass state inspection due to a broken headlight lens/housing.

I didn't build it. I didn't buy it. I didn't break it.
Just a guy trying to make a modest living fixing what I can.
(And for what it's worth, the entire auto industry has become an embarrassment IMO)
Rant over.

Do you realize that while you were typing all that, I changed my plugs, oil, and air filter?

 

[Jim_in_PA]

My neighbor had a Dodge Dart, 63? with inline six. No 3 on the tree, it had the 3 push buttons on the dash! Maybe 4 if you include reverse.

My first car (and only used vehicle) was a 1969 Dodge Dart auto with the push buttons...my 21st birthday present from the 'rents. It was a great car mechanically for sure. Not that it would have been practical to do so, but from time to time I kinda wish I would have kept it around because it was from an "era of vehicle simplicity) that we'll never return to. Then again, I like my features and stick to top trims with all the bells and whistles now. LOL

 

[Harry Styron]

Don't know which mine were. Just know they worked and didn't take coffee breaks.

The trannies never failed, either — even though three-on-the-tree was never meant for interstates!

I drove a 1962 Valiant in the late 60s, with a 225 slant six and a three on the tree, and recap tires. The engine and tranny were great, but the headliner rotted and the spider gears in the differential were delicate, requiring me to replace them twice. Surely my driving had nothing to do with it.

 

[Harry Styron]

Do you realize that while you were typing all that, I changed my plugs, oil, and air filter?
View attachment 1081378

Did you dump your sediment bowl, clean out that oil bath air cleaner, and file your points, too?

 

[flathd]

Did you dump your sediment bowl, clean out that oil bath air cleaner, and file your points, too?

The Merc oil bath doesn't fit in the Ford engine compartment. K & N does the job fine! Inline gas filter, haven't changed or filed the points for years.

 

[David Barnett]

Do you realize that while you were typing all that, I changed my plugs, oil, and air filter?

If you're willing to accept 95 HP from a 3.9L engine, I suppose ease of service is reasonable compensation.

 

[flathd]

If you're willing to accept 95 HP from a 3.9L engine, I suppose ease of service is reasonable compensation.

3.9L? That's 255 cubes man, 120+ hp, and tons of torque!

 

[David Barnett]

3.9L? That's 255 cubes man, 120+ hp, and tons of torque!

Okay so I was off by 18 cu. in. or 0.3L.

 

[flathd]

Okay so I was off by 18 cu. in. or 0.3L

Your googled research was off, not you.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

My neighbor had a Dodge Dart, 63? with inline six. No 3 on the tree, it had the 3 push buttons on the dash! Maybe 4 if you include reverse.

Cool! My mom had a Plymouth Belvedere with the dash buttons. What a concept!

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I drove a 1962 Valiant in the late 60s, with a 225 slant six and a three on the tree, and recap tires. The engine and tranny were great, but the headliner rotted and the spider gears in the differential were delicate, requiring me to replace them twice. Surely it my driving had nothing to do with it.

Mine first Valiant was a '62, too, slant six, three on the tree. Black with red interior. Lots of adventures. Heaven on wheels.

 

[Happy Enchilada]

I had a '99 Ford Explorer Sport (2 door) that I bought used and drove for 16 years right up to 200K.
Went everywhere I needed to be - highway trips, off-road, hunting in the hills, around town, etc.
Got 21 mpg on the highway. Had the naturally aspirated 4 litre V6 that Ford was CRAZY to stop producing.
Taught 2 sons to drive in it, hauled lots of muley bucks down the hill, and made several trips to week-long Scout camps across the West. I miss it so. And once in a while I find myself combing Craigslist for one ...

... but I had GAS for a new vehicle, so I sallied forth to test drive the new crop.
Really wanted to like the new Ford Ranger, but alas, no legroom and hefty pricetag.
Ditto the Toyota Taco. And the 4Runner drove like a school bus - couldn't imagine it off road.
Then I took a walk on the wild side and stopped in the Chevy dealer and drove the Colorado.
It accelerated like a sports car. Parked like a sedan. And was thousands cheaper than the competition.
Clouds parted, my checkbook flashed in my hand, and the thing was done.

Not only does it do everything I need and more, but it actually fits in the third bay of my garage.
Surprising amount of legroom - more than my 6'6" frame actually needs. And heated seats.
Couple years ago it hauled two nice muley bucks down the hill opening day, dodging big rocks all the way.
Gets 27+ on the highway loaded with gear @ 85 mph, 24 on the trails in 4Low, and 18 around town.
I'm religious @ routine maintenance, so it gets oil changes and anything else it needs on time.
No problems whatsoever so far, aside from the factory battery conking out (it's a 2018 model).
Perfect for my "last vehicle," considering I'm semi-retired @ 64 and probably done deer hunting.

 

[middy]

My experience with American cars since the late 90s has been terrible. I had a 97 Ford Escort wagon, 2002 Chrysler minivan, and a 2003 Dodge Stratus SXT. None of them got anywhere near 100k miles before crapping out. My 98 Civic EX 5 speed manual was at 308k when I sold it looking good and running strong. Sold it in 1 day. My 07 Acura had 258k when I sold it. My current 2015 Honda Accord Sport 6 speed manual has 224k and runs like new. My wife's 2014 Infiniti Q50 has about 160k and screams. Love that car.

I’m a Honda man myself, these days. About 400,000 problem free miles between 2 Civics and a Pilot.