I have a theory about American Cars....

[buster poser]

What's considered an "American" car at this point in time? Origin? Ownership? Assembly point? Percent of North American including USA content? That's a big challenge at this point!!!! My current vehicle is a brand that originated in another country, but the vehicle was built in Indiana by US workers. My previous vehicle was a brand that's considered a "home grown" brand, but owned by a large non-US corporate entity and was also built in the US by US workers.

For me it comes down to who owns them, and the Big Three still feel like they're run by beancounters. I could see, touch, and feel where the many corners were cut on the Fords/Chevys/Chryslers I've owned or rented over the past ten or so years. My old man bought the "the US is BACK!" spin in the 80s and got burnt, I needed to repeat the lesson in the 2010s I guess.

Spartanburg's BMW plant and numerous Honda, Toyota factories long put lie to the notion that it's about the workers. I've recently watched a few 'inside the factory' videos on YouTube and the contrast between production lines of Big Three and EU/JP marques, for me, shows a fundamental difference in ideas about how to approach the whole affair of making cars.

Then there's the service experience as I've mentioned elsewhere; just not great to own long term even if you get the "once in a while" quality product. I hope they get it together, but I don't want to buy too many more cars at 50+ and I intend to put more than 100k miles on them. Neither my '06 half-ton F150 nor my '12 Focus hatch made it that far without needing major mechanical work. Fine for someone else, I won't have another.

 

[Trenchant63]

and so did Chevy with 5.3L

Would like your insights into concerns on this engine and its big brother - the 6.2L (I believe they are basically same except for displacement). Thx.

 

[telekaster1999]

99 Tahoe 300K. Notoriously known for bad fuel pumps, which mine had and had to be replaced, upgraded to a better one about 100k ago and been fine every since.

 

[mally]

never had or wanted one TBH I have a BMW 320d that just got to 170'000 miles and still does 60 mpg combined driving and is still like new inside and out and drives the same

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

The Chevy Silverado is the longest lasting truck on the road, as their tagline says in the ads. I was a GM for 2 Chev stores in 18 years of Car dealership management. They are built well and through state DMV databases its is verifiable that the Silverado has more continuing DMV registrations than any other truck manufacturer.

Why? Theyve been making em forever. You can look at the subframe of a silverado from 2007 and the notch where the oil pan sits is in the same spot going back to the late 60s.

More, or less...its the same truck. Of course fuel injected, better, more fuel efficient transmission, final drive gearing...(R&D from Allison Transmissions which are standard on all HD silverados).

Its a good recipie and they have it dialed in.

 

[effzee]

A bud of mine worked at the Ford plant in Mahwah New Jersey and he had some hair raising stories to tell, and also said he would never buy a Ford for as long as he lived. That was a long time ago but afaik he still avoids Fords like the plague.

They were supposed to pump grease into the various joints, then unscrew the grease fitting and replace it with a plug. But to save time, they'd bash the grease fittings flat with a hammer and dab some grease over it to make it look like the work had been done.

 

[NeverTooLate]

What's considered an "American" car at this point in time? Origin? Ownership? Assembly point? Percent of North American including USA content? That's a big challenge at this point!!!! My current vehicle is a brand that originated in another country, but the vehicle was built in Indiana by US workers. My previous vehicle was a brand that's considered a "home grown" brand, but owned by a large non-US corporate entity and was also built in the US by US workers.

What is generally considered American used to be union-made in the US. I suppose Tesla made it harder. I don't think they are UAW, are they?

In business, as in war, leadership determines how the legions will perform. If executives optimize for short-term outcomes and/or feel they have to "innovate" come heck or high water (i.e. to advance their careers) then they will push the legions in ways that will cause production quality to suffer. There is a difference between actual innovation and change for the sake of promoting one's career.

If my 4Runner were to be totaled, I would consider a Bronco, but I would be very surprised if I actually bought it. For our other vehicle that keeps to pavement, I would be less worried, but still an all-useful Subaru or a Rav 4 hybrid or a Lexus CUV is what I would be looking for. For my son, I am planning a Subaru in a year unless I can snatch an FJ Cruiser at a reasonable price by summer 2024.

I also like to maintain my own older vehicles so staying with Subaru and Toyota is a strong preference for me. Not willing to learn other brands and I know people who spent decades in maintenance and who run away from Fords as fast as they can.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

For me it comes down to who owns them, and the Big Three still feel like they're run by beancounters.

Relative to "US" ownership, it's kinda "big-two" now for years. "Chrysler" and it's related brands have not been US owned for a long time now; currently Stelantis which combined FCA, Peugeot, etc, a couple years ago. Before that it was Daimler.

I think that "beancounting" is pretty much the industry, but some companies seem better at adding value while still making the money they need with lower costs when they can.

 

[imwjl]

I hate driving my wife's 2015 Chevy Equinox (because of it's anemic power) but as a piece of equipment it has been the most reliable. No problems. Like a faithful mule. Also, I'm comparing it to a foreign V8.

Well, tied to the good news I posted on GM is the likelihood the next gen Equinox could be on target for time and price. My guess is the EV will make it very zippy like the two generations of Bolt in addition to a great price.

I will argue people need the love and pride for some new modest and practical USA brand vehicles like they did for some pre-malaise era domestics. The specs and prices for some new GM and Ford products are impressive.

The way light trucks and some vehicles are now is kind of crazy. They remain work vehicles for many same time they've become an ego and entertainment thing for many. I have no good answers for how we become more sagacious on those points. My inner libertarian supports freedom while my aged self recognizes freedumb.

 

[buster poser]

The Chevy Silverado is the longest lasting truck on the road, as their tagline says in the ads. I was a GM for 2 Chev stores in 18 years of Car dealership management. They are built well and through state DMV databases its is verifiable that the Silverado has more continuing DMV registrations than any other truck manufacturer.

Why? Theyve been making em forever. You can look at the subframe of a silverado from 2007 and the notch where the oil pan sits is in the same spot going back to the late 60s.

More, or less...its the same truck. Of course fuel injected, better, more fuel efficient transmission, final drive gearing...(R&D from Allison Transmissions which are standard on all HD silverados).

Its a good recipie and they have it dialed in.

Can't argue with that. Chevy/GMC trucks including Tahoes etc., tons still on the road and in pretty good condition. Ford loves to try new things like two piece spark plugs or turbo 6s with 10 forward gears to account for the power band; they sell well of course, but for a half-ton, a mountain of torque out of a pushrod V8 is kind of all I want.

Relative to "US" ownership, it's kinda "big-two" now for years. "Chrysler" and it's related brands have not been US owned for a long time now; currently Stelantis which combined FCA, Peugeot, etc, a couple years ago. Before that it was Daimler.

I think that "beancounting" is pretty much the industry, but some companies seem better at adding value while still making the money they need with lower costs when they can.

True on FCA, though they don't seem to have blended approaches to any great degree since the acquisition(s); still overwhelmingly muscle cars, trucks, and minivans, and kinda iffy materials/interior quality in the main.

Every maker has to be conscious of cost, but the difference in feel of Big 3 vs ROW from your bog standard grocery getter up through the "luxury" models is just night and day for me.

 

[djh22]

I have a 2013 F-150, 5.0 liter V-8 (302), rapidly approaching 300K miles with absolutely no problems whatsoever. It followed 2 Tacomas .

 

[imwjl]

The Chevy Silverado is the longest lasting truck on the road, as their tagline says in the ads. I was a GM for 2 Chev stores in 18 years of Car dealership management. They are built well and through state DMV databases its is verifiable that the Silverado has more continuing DMV registrations than any other truck manufacturer.

Why? Theyve been making em forever. You can look at the subframe of a silverado from 2007 and the notch where the oil pan sits is in the same spot going back to the late 60s.

More, or less...its the same truck. Of course fuel injected, better, more fuel efficient transmission, final drive gearing...(R&D from Allison Transmissions which are standard on all HD silverados).

Its a good recipie and they have it dialed in.

It has been a good recipe for the light truck class we buy and lease at work not so much anymore, and the way light truck class is so popular beyond work can really look silly to me. I think of my my solid upper middle class neighborhood where only 2 of many are work vehicles.

At work we are really excited about the product and market changes though. The strategy is we will still have 1-2 each of gasoline or diesel powered at each site and the rest will be electric.

On your DMV point, associates in our state who work there also point out a lot of old vehicles still registered are just because purchase price is low. That is easy to believe being in an enterprise where we have around 600 first line workers now making more money than they've ever done. First vehicle purchases are very often and sadly, what they can afford up front and not necessarily the best.

 

[doghouseman]

Would like your insights into concerns on this engine and its big brother - the 6.2L (I believe they are basically same except for displacement). Thx.

I love my 5.3. Plenty of power and the variable timing makes it get 22 to 24 on the highway.

 

[doghouseman]

I have a 2013 F-150, 5.0 liter V-8 (302), rapidly approaching 300K miles with absolutely no problems whatsoever. It followed 2 Tacomas .

The 302 has been around forever. Not surprising!

 

[doghouseman]

What's considered an "American" car at this point in time? Origin? Ownership? Assembly point? Percent of North American including USA content? That's a big challenge at this point!!!! My current vehicle is a brand that originated in another country, but the vehicle was built in Indiana by US workers. My previous vehicle was a brand that's considered a "home grown" brand, but owned by a large non-US corporate entity and was also built in the US by US workers.

I guess any of the big three. I understand that it is a world market now.

 

[archetype]

Someone else mentioned in another thread that they had been discussing with their wife how certain models were hallmarks ('65 stang for example) that later declined in quality.

I was pondering that and I came to the same conclusion as you - there must be times when the organization as a whole is cohesive. Other times, there is simply an amazing engineer - read: Metzger.

In the truck world, I'd say a great example is the 2nd gen Ram, particularly with a 12v Cummins. One of the last great classic pickup trucks IMHO. Bringing back the dropped fender line, it was both retro and fully modern (and would be copied). The 12v is known as one of the greatest diesels of the 20th century, and hey - don't have to delete what isn't there.

Also the last two generations of Tacoma - and let's face it, one is hardly more than facelift of the other - are nearly perfect midsize trucks. The former Tundra too, but it didn't stand head and shoulders above the half ton competition in the way the Tacoma did compared to the Frontier and Ranger. My dream would be a low mileage 2015, final year with both a manual transmission and manual windows.

If you'll allow a stretch of the truck genre... nearly every Land Cruiser Toyota has ever built has been its own form of perfect too.

Until I got my Subaru Forester, my 2002 Toyota Tacoma Double-Cab was the best vehicle I'd owned in my life. It did everything right and was a real truck that did real truck work. In Indiana I didn't really need 4-WD, or its expense, so it was 2-WD with a locking differential that worked well. We don't truly need a second vehicle, but if we got one it would likely be a Tacoma SR "cab and a half," 4-cylinder, 4-WD.

2004 Toyota Tacoma quad cab shortbed here, made in Fremont CA (frame and cab) and Long Beach CA (bed). Bulletproof 3.4L V6 with timing chain. Almost 300K miles and never had the top off the engine. Original starter. The only things I've had to replace besides tires/brakes/wipers/tune-ups/battery are driver door window regulator ($40), a right bank ignition coil ($60), and a short length of plastic fuel line the squirrels chewed through. This truck is a little beast and still looks great with no rust anywhere on the body.

The only reason ours was sold is that we couldn't get my MIL into and out of it. Otherwise, an outstanding, robust vehicle.

 

[keithb7]

This one. Made in Detroit. Still going. It sees regular use from April to Oct each year. No it has not been restored. It has been maintained. Stock systems. Brakes, wiring, steering, 6 volt electrical, suspension and more. It still all works as it should. 1938 year makes it 85 years old this year.

The same could be said about many older vehicles. Look at the model T also. Pretty darn great American car.

My ‘38 Plymouth, my friend’s 1925 Model T. Seen here. They got ‘em right.

 

[archetype]

About ten years ago, I was issued a new Ford Fusion for work. Probably the '13 model. Man, that was a freakin' solid car. Peppy. Comfortable. Fine interior. Cool, understated exterior. No mechanical problems. And so of course, they were discontinued. Sigh.

View attachment 1079294

In 2016 my company car was a new, base model Fusion and it was as you describe. That car was everything a mid-sized sedan should be. The trunk was like a black hole I could throw anything into. It left me very impressed by what Ford could produce.

 

[archetype]

I will say this: by modern standards, my '22 Subaru is much more maintenance friendly than other new cars. I'm sure there's a nervous system-esque wiring scheme under the carpet, but when you pop the hood it's clear they at least expected you might change the oil. No stupid plastic covers to take off, oil filter is accessible with the car parked on the ground, right from the top. This is what it looks like under the hood from the factory:

View attachment 1079303

That's about the same view I have under the hood of our '20 Forester. You don't have to remove the car just to get to the engine.

 

[archetype]

I don't have any. But I've got these and they're very dependable. View attachment 1079373 View attachment 1079374

Is that a B or C Cab? Nice cars!