I have a theory about American Cars....

[vgallagher]

My Best car - 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GT - got almost 200K out of it with no problems. Traded it in for the worst car I ever had - Volvo S60.

Too bad they got rid of Pontiac. It was a great brand with some pretty cool cars.

 

[imwjl]

Okay, I have this figured out now.

If Buick is my tribe, I cannot aid US workers and domestic jobs even though 2 of their 3 models only have 3% domestic content and a low seller 3rd model has 47%.

If a big Chevy Silverado is my tribe, I cannot aid US workers and economy with a full-sized pickup from Dutch or Japanese HQ firm even though their products have up to 20% more US content and labor.

For that 47% Buick, it is priced hear a Tesla Model Y. Unlike the similarly priced Buick, the Model Y sold (rounded) 759,000 vs 30,500. Now that I have it figured out I know I cannot disappoint my tribe. I have to promote the stuff made of more Chinesium. I don't dare take any pride that a vehicle from a 12 year old US car company was #1 in the world for revenue and #4 for units sold last year.

 

[bottlenecker]

until middle management screws everything up.

Strange place to put the blame. Blame always belongs on top.

 

[getbent]

It's still simple for me.
I'll buy domestic.
Easy peasey.


You can make it a more complex issue to justify your choices, if it helps you feel better about them... I don't care.

Not being antagonistic, just telling it as I see it

ha ha, this awesome.. you know that you can make things simpler to also justify your choices too, right?

I totally appreciate that you just want to keep it simple to satisfy the firmly held emotions of your father, but by simplifying them to that degree, you ignore a large set of specific facts that negate your belief.

By all means, pick your poison, if simplifying works for you, cool, but justification methodology clearly favors those who don't really wanna think too much about things. (ask the hatfields and mccoys!)

 

[blowtorch]

pick your poison

Thank you for that permission!

(and...we all do, yes? I guess one metric I use for my own decisions in these things is: is it convenient for me? If so, it may bear further reflection- if something is actually inconvenient for me, that's often a pretty good indicator that I'm on the right track -YMM(AD)V and all that)

 

[imwjl]

My Best car - 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GT - got almost 200K out of it with no problems. Traded it in for the worst car I ever had - Volvo S60.

Too bad they got rid of Pontiac. It was a great brand with some pretty cool cars.

The Curious Cars and Rare Classic Cars YouTube guys have content you might really like.

Even as corporate cousins or siblings Pontiac and Oldsmobile did some neat and commendable stuff but GM started a horrible drift into mediocrity at best from the malaise era through the Great Recession times. Beyond quality and reliability issues they could not be competitive without slimming themselves and dealers.

If you have a warm spot for GM, there is a lot to be proud of and hopeful for right now. They are going more vertical, investing close to home, and pretty competitive with the Chinese in some areas. My fingers are crossed and best wishes to them for the new passenger vehicles coming where one will be Honda branded too.

Funny that you mentioned the Volvo. We had a just prior to S or V 855 turbo wagon caught as a bargain and possibly risk and it was an absolutely solid, pleasurable and reliable rig for 9 years while many we knew had regrets. Something more funny is we never thought we'd have kids and it also worked out perfect having taken 3 babies home from the hospital. We can't imagine any sort of premium spend on automobiles like a Volvo and many others anymore but autos still capture a lot of interest.

 

[getbent]

Thank you for that permission!

(and...we all do, yes? I guess one metric I use for my own decisions in these things is: is it convenient for me? If so, it may bear further reflection- if something is actually inconvenient for me, that's often a pretty good indicator that I'm on the right track -YMM(AD)V and all that)

love it!


some people are dicks and demand that people comply or be dismissed. I say, everyone is welcome, I just like to converse on what we picked! I say 'takes your choices, buy the ticket, take the ride, report back!'

 

[omahaaudio]

I think every once and awhile, employees at an American car company are all on the same page, and produce a great product.

Hahahaha! Once in a while they might produce something that isn't a POS, but "great product"? No.

 

[getbent]

Hahahaha! Once in a while they might produce something that isn't a POS, but "great product"? No.

so sayeth he from the land of le car! peugot, citroen...........

 

[Knows3Chords]

I thought they were bringing the Yugo back. What happened?

 

[Pcs264]

I'm a bit sad that it's been like this, but I was a lost cause for US automakers from my beginning. I started driving in 1969 with my Dad's 1969 Chrysler Newport and later with my Mom's Buick LeSabre and then her Chevrolet Citation. They were all terrible to drive and they were in & out of the shop regularly. In the 70's Toyota, Datsun & Honda were introducing well-made, reliable cars at good prices, while American cars in that era just lost their way even more. When I was traveling for business (mid-80s through 2017), I always specified an American make for my rental car, just to keep up a bit with what was out there, and never perceived that things were improving very much. I just turned 70 and have never seriously considered a US made car. Here's my life ownership list.
1976 Toyota Celica
1979 Fiat 131 Brava (don't laugh - it was blast to drive a "poor man's BMW" and was rock solid for 80K miles - then it started breaking down regularly - "Fix It Again, Tony")
1986 Nissan Sentra
1989 Volvo 240 wagon, then a 1992 Volvo 240 sedan - both comfortable, safe, perfectly reliable, slow & boring
2000 Audi A6 (my only fling with German engineering; it was wonderful on the road, and I estimate that I've spent >75% of my lifetime auto maintenance $ on that Audi)
2010 Subaru Outback
2012 Subaru Outback (my wife's, because my Outback was her favorite car ever and she wanted one in a different color!)
2019 Subaru Crosstrek (also my wife's - she's an ER nurse and in 2019 Subaru came out with all the new safety technology)
2021 Subaru Outback (mine)

You see the pattern in our last four cars, and we've been consistently happy with all of them. Technically the 2019 and 2021 Outbacks are American made (in Indiana), but the design & engineering are Japanese. Also the engines, drivetrains and major electrical sub-assemblies are manufactured in Japan and shipped to the Indiana factory where the other parts are made and final assembly is done.

 

[imwjl]

so sayeth he from the land of le car! peugot, citroen...........

Peugeot is an instant shock in my brain.

I have a true story of driving a 1964 Peugeot 404 in Peru in the year 1981 where I don't have time at the moment but thanks for reminding me I've had a lot of adventure beyond outdoor sports and big machines. It would be hard to honestly describe that all let alone within the rules here. The long month of living very dangerously?

It is rooted in we had an AFS (exchange) student who lied about his age, was a wild man, and all the girls of any age loved him. More of a bond because my dad died shortly after he arrived and we were sort of all thrown into figuring out a lot more of the world together and fast. 1981 was a reunion from our original 1970s bond.

Some who knew our exchange student Max and I between the 1970s and 1981 find it hard to believe we are alive let alone with decent life and families.

Really, "Peugeot" sent me on quite a tangent in memory lane.

 

[Milspec]

Not really sure what your talking about I’ve had two 5.3’s that have beer bullet proof.

They are often oil users right off the factory floor. Even a new 5.3L will often burn a quart of oil between changes...that is not a good design and why they dumped it in 2013. It reminded me of the Cadillac Northstar which had the same issue and would need the center block replaced around 80k miles as a result.

In both cases, they were good runners and reliability was viewed as good, but any motor that chews oil from the start is not a good design in my book.

 

[MarkieMark]

I avoid discussions of domestic brand and content if for no other reason than that it has been a grossly misunderstood and mis-guided basis for consideration for decades now.

But there are two comments I feel compelled to share-

1: I have seen vehicles go horizontal, literally fly and "go turtle" up and down steep slopes, and such, but I have yet to see a vehicle, GM or otherwise- go "vertical." Pretty close, but other than a "winch trick" not yet. So I still don't quite get what this "Vertical" buzzword thing is about or relevant to.

2: The last time I saw a Peugeot 404, the customer opened the hood to point something out, and I reacted by closing the hood, turning to the customer and firmly stating "NO!" "Whatever the symptom, and whatever the solution, just NO!"

2.5: There was an office worker in a dealership I worked at in the 70's who drove some kind of Peugeot contraption. I have vague recollections of something with a waterpump on the firewall end of the engine that I replaced by feel... But I may be confusing that with a Saab or something.
Refer to answer 2.

 

[jdl57]

Someone else mentioned in another thread that they had been discussing with their wife how certain models were hallmarks ('65 stang for example) that later declined in quality.

The Mustang was a rework of the Falcon, later to become the Maverick. All three basically the same car. I don't hear anybody pining over the Falcon, or Maverick for that matter. What old cars have going for them is nostalgia, but I do have a 1978 Ford F-150 that's one hell of vehicle. It will go through snow up to it's axles. It's great as long as you don't want comfort, power, good brakes, precise steering, speed, or more than 10mpg fuel economy. But it's 45 years old and still runs, mostly because every mechanical part has been rebuilt.

 

[Recce]

They are often oil users right off the factory floor. Even a new 5.3L will often burn a quart of oil between changes...that is not a good design and why they dumped it in 2013. It reminded me of the Cadillac Northstar which had the same issue and would need the center block replaced around 80k miles as a result.

In both cases, they were good runners and reliability was viewed as good, but any motor that chews oil from the start is not a good design in my book.

I sold my first one with 160,000 miles. It didn’t burn oil. The one I have now has 103,000 miles and it doesn’t burn oil. Maybe I am just always lucky or I do basic maintenance, oil changes at about 4,4

 

[GGardner]

But I may be confusing that with a Saab or something.

Here's something completely off track, but your remark about a Saab reminded me of a funny incident. A lifetime ago, my wife said something that I took as a complete non sequitur. She said, "I always imagined I'd marry a guy who drove a Saab." At the time, I was driving a Toyota Camry.

I mentioned the remark to a woman I worked with, and said, "I have absolutely no idea what she meant."
The woman smiled knowingly and said, "I know EXACTLY what she meant."

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Here's something completely off track, but your remark about a Saab reminded me of a funny incident. A lifetime ago, my wife said something that I took as a complete non sequitur. She said, "I always imagined I'd marry a guy who drove a Saab." At the time, I was driving a Toyota Camry.

I mentioned the remark to a woman I worked with, and said, "I have absolutely no idea what she meant."
The woman smiled knowingly and said, "I know EXACTLY what she meant."

Fill us in, I have no idea either. Is this a Seinfeld reference?

 

[gusmc01]

I clicked on the subject line expecting to see you finish that sentence with "...they suck."

 

[old soul]

I loved my 84 regal. It was like driving while sitting on a couch. Loved both gm trucks I owned. 50/50 satisfaction with the ford's I've owned. One was great, one was a temperamental death machine (not in a cool way, either)
My last gm product needed its 3rd transmission at 83k miles.