I hate renting...

Preacher

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Home ownership....I've been in the game since I was 22 or so. 30 years. All paid up, we owe nothing to the banks. The threat of higher interest rates don't have me concerned much. The funny thing is when you do finally have the house paid off, you don't feel any richer. You do have less financial commitments to worry about, yet the mortgage payment is not always the biggest cost. Add up taxes, maintenance, repairs, renovations and upkeep for a home. It still takes a lot of your money every month. By now, as you aged and finally paid it off, retirement is on your radar. Any mortgage payment needs to be deferred the the retirement savings account. You realize now that indeed you are no richer than when you were younger and had a mortgage payment. As the decades pile-up you look around and wonder what happened. Everything got so expensive. The cost of living. A new USA Fender guitar. A can of tuna. Gasoline. The quality of everything seems to have dropped since you were younger. Rising costs for utilities. Cell phones. Internet bills. It's all gone nuts it seems. Then you look at your retirement savings. Seems the money can now buy ½ of what it used to buy. You start thinking, I don't know if I have enough. I worked so hard my whole cursed life to pay it all to the man. When finally my time has come for the golden years, how will I afford it on a fixed income? Sell the darn house. Down size to a condo in the city. Buy a Spark amp with headphones. Live closer to the necessities you need, maybe? Walk and transit and keep paying the man. Life sucks then you die.

Well said...
 

Preacher

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I have owned a home for the last 30 years I have been alive before we started renting two years ago.

First home I bought I got from by Brother In Law. He had owner financed a house that a friend of his had owner financed and he got the owner of the house to allow him to take over payments. When my BIL moved out of state he called us and asked if we "wanted" the house.
We knew NOTHING about house owning. We assumed you paid sales tax on the house and you were done paying taxes lol.

So we did not even meet the owner of the house until three years after we "bought" it. We paid no money down, put our payment into the owner's bank each month and just did that for 8 and a half years. After five years I started to wonder what I had agreed to with my BIL so I pulled out the paperwork he had given me. Yes my name was on the contract, a continuation of the contract that my BIL had and the contract that his friend had before him. I put it on my calendar that the original contract was for 120 months and that we should have it paid off in three and a half years.

The day came where according to my calculations we were making our last payment. We made the deposit as we normally did and then sent off an email to our owner thanking her for the opportunity and asking when we could meet so she could sign over the deed. We assumed buying a home was like buying a car, you signed off on a piece of paper and then put that paper somewhere safe. We were wrong. We had to go downtown, file paperwork, pay to have the title transferred and all that stuff with an almost 80 year old woman meeting us. She seemed somewhat depressed when she signed her last papers giving us ownership. She said, "I guess this means you aren't putting money into my account anymore?". I laughed at the time as I thought she was joking. Today looking back I am not so sure she was joking.

A few months later we took out a major loan on the property to have the roof replaced, ten of the sixteen windows replaced as they barely kept out the rain let alone the cold and heat, and put siding on the house as the old lap siding was rotting and in need of paint. Oh we also had a termite outbreak on one corner that was found and had to get a contractor and a structural engineer out to replace one corner of a two story house. All in all we probably spent $40K on all of that work but we also borrowed against the equity of the house to pay off some school loans and some credit cards so all in we had a $60K mortgage.

Fast forward 4 years and we had to relocate and sell the house. We listed with an agent for $69K (this was back in 2000 and in OK LOL), and sold it, until the day before closing when the buyers called and backed out. We had also bought a home in the new town and now we had two home mortgages.

After two months of paying both mortgages we decided to rent the old home out since no one was making an offer. We were able to rent it for about $250 more than our monthly mortgage payment which also included a tax and insurance escrow so we thought we were golden and now had "investment property".

Everything was great until the renter called and said the toilet was backing up in the downstairs part of the house on a Sunday morning at 6AM. I go over and try to unclog it to no avail, had to call a plumber out on a Sunday to fix it. That was a $300 service call. First months rent did not even cover my costs.

The next month I get a call and the outside water faucet has sprung a leak and it leaking water into the backyard causing a swamp. I go over and hope to just replace the faucet but to no avail, the house has shifted slightly and the galvanized water line that was run through a solid concrete stair has broken. Called the plumber plus a concrete guy to cut out and replace a section of the stairs and I am out another $500 the second month.

Now I am two months into renting and I am negative returns on my investment property.

Month number three, the renter calls and tells me that the window AC is really noisy. I tell him I lived there for 8 years and it is not unusual for a large unit like that to be somewhat noisy but I will take a look. I go over, clean the filters, wash the evap coils, do a little sealing and tell him it is good to go. Thankfully nothing else happened that month but I am out about an hour of my time and an the travel to site.

Month number 4 - rent is late. I called the renter, he does not answer. I drop by the house, no one is home. I call a few days later, no answer. I drop by the house and he tells me he has had some circumstances and can only pay half rent but will get me the rest the first of the month along with the next months rent. Sure, he is a guy I played high school ball with, we all have bad months. I cut him some slack.

Month number 5 - rent is late again. No answer to calls, visits to the house or notes left on the door. Ten days after the first of the month I show up at the house with a "pay or get out" note. As I am visiting with the neighbors the renter shows up with a truck and a trailer. He doesn't have my money and he is only there to move the last pieces of his belongings into his new digs across town.

My money? Oh no he doesn't have any extra money as it is expensive to move water, electric, cable and pay first and last month's rent (which he could not do at the initial discussion of the lease with me) so he is tapped out. He was going to call me once he got everything out of the house and let me know at least. Thanks buddy!! I tell him to be out by morning as I would be over to replace the locks.

Month number 6 - House is empty, except for the dog poop that is all over the brand new carpet we had put down six months ago. And the dirty dishes that are piled up in the sink that are already hatching flies. Oh and there is still food in the fridge, which has been unplugged for two weeks since the power was turned off. The backyard had gone from a swamp to a bare patch of dirt after three dogs were added to the household that I did not know about. Three bags of trash left in the garage, a broken bicycle and a push mower missing the blade and front wheel. Oh and my table saw that was in the garage (I had to put in some trim around a window that had mysteriously got broken off) was somehow put in with his stuff and is now gone.

My wife and I start to clean up the house choking back tears as we discover the carnage. Throwing away dirty dishes (water was off also) and trying not to throw up cleaning the rancid food out of the fridge was only part of it.
We went upstairs and found that they had done some painting on the upstairs bedrooms that had not been approved. But alas when you paint, you should maybe cut in first and then use the roller, not use the roller and get close to the corners and just leave it. Also not that Charcoal Grey is not a great color, but maybe don't use a dark color for a room with only one window. Also blood red is not really a good color for a master bedroom either, especially when you spill some on the hardwood floors and don't clean it up.

But it gets better, while scraping the dog poo off of the carpet so we can at least get the house to not smell like a kennel. I happen to notice pain on one of my ankles. Then another ***** on another ankle a moment later. Then my wife smacks at her ankle and says something bit her. I notice that I have at least a half dozen fleas on me and they are hungry...
Freaked out by being eaten alive by fleas and the sheer overwhelming feelings of sadness we vacate the premises and take what trash we had accumulated to the curb, along with what the renter left.

At this point it is renter 1 - landlord - 0

We left the house vacant for three weeks we were so distraught. We only went back because the next months payment was due. My old neighbors agreed to let me run some extension cords from their house to allow us to clean (Oh did I mention that he left a $200 electric bill on the house and I would have to pay that or show a change in ownership before the power got turned back on). I also discovered that big noisy window unit had been replaced with a much smaller and much quieter window unit that was about half the BTU's of the original unit which did not cool the downstairs portion of the house.

We finally listed the house for sale as is, and sold it for what we had in it. We felt extremely lucky to just get out of that horror movie even though as landlords we would have been money ahead to just let it sit as it was.

My last house had almost $60K invested into it just a year before we decided to downsize, we did recoop that cost in the increase of the value of the house, but again it is all cyclical. It can cost you out of pocket whether you are the owner and live in the house or if it is an "investment property" and you are the landlord.

And just know, I am not a good landlord. I am too soft hearted, most always believe the best in people and discovered long ago that not all people think like me. My wife and I decided long ago that "investment properties" are not our thing.
 

Toto'sDad

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150 Miles, there is this large river you cross and then you hit Memphis...
That was kind of my estimate from personal experience once you leave Texas, and enter Oklahoma, the native dialect seems to be about the same until you cross the bridge going into Memphis!
 

buster poser

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Bingo. Most Americans (at ANY income level) have less than $1000 in the bank at any given time. That means that whether you're an owner/renter, statistically you're one unforeseen expense away from having nothing.

For example, we live in the midwest in a small city deemed to be one of the most affordable in the country. The median income around here is $40K; most houses in my neighborhood are $100-$150K.

My neighbor is in management in the automotive industry, making $75K+. He just recently got a new job making close to $100K, but was super worried that if he didnt time the transition just right then he might miss a single paycheck, which would apparently be financially catastrophic for him.

That blows my mind. We make significantly less money than him, we have more children, student loans, and have managed to save enough to take care of a financial emergency.
The personal saving rate has gone down significantly since the good old days (another decline erroneously assumed as constant by older people), due to flat wages and rising housing/other costs, but I agree with the thrust of your point about people not saving well.

If you're making $100k in an area with $150k homes, you're doing more than okay and living paycheck to paycheck is inexcusable. I don't think that is most non-savers' experiences though.

 

Toto'sDad

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Bingo. Most Americans (at ANY income level) have less than $1000 in the bank at any given time. That means that whether you're an owner/renter, statistically you're one unforeseen expense away from having nothing.

For example, we live in the midwest in a small city deemed to be one of the most affordable in the country. The median income around here is $40K; most houses in my neighborhood are $100-$150K.

My neighbor is in management in the automotive industry, making $75K+. He just recently got a new job making close to $100K, but was super worried that if he didnt time the transition just right then he might miss a single paycheck, which would apparently be financially catastrophic for him.

That blows my mind. We make significantly less money than him, we have more children, student loans, and have managed to save enough to take care of a financial emergency.

My wife has always been the brains in the outfit. I am pretty good at taking a particular situation, and making the most of it, but she's the one that sets things in motion. When we had been married for actually quite a while, we finally had a LITTLE money left over at the end of the week when we got my next paycheck. She wisely invested two dollars in a little green cashbox, and we put twenty dollars in it, the next week we put another twenty in it. Before long, we had to open a bank account to put our money in.
 

Esquire Jones

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I have owned a home for the last 30 years I have been alive before we started renting two years ago.

First home I bought I got from by Brother In Law. He had owner financed a house that a friend of his had owner financed and he got the owner of the house to allow him to take over payments. When my BIL moved out of state he called us and asked if we "wanted" the house.
We knew NOTHING about house owning. We assumed you paid sales tax on the house and you were done paying taxes lol.

So we did not even meet the owner of the house until three years after we "bought" it. We paid no money down, put our payment into the owner's bank each month and just did that for 8 and a half years. After five years I started to wonder what I had agreed to with my BIL so I pulled out the paperwork he had given me. Yes my name was on the contract, a continuation of the contract that my BIL had and the contract that his friend had before him. I put it on my calendar that the original contract was for 120 months and that we should have it paid off in three and a half years.

The day came where according to my calculations we were making our last payment. We made the deposit as we normally did and then sent off an email to our owner thanking her for the opportunity and asking when we could meet so she could sign over the deed. We assumed buying a home was like buying a car, you signed off on a piece of paper and then put that paper somewhere safe. We were wrong. We had to go downtown, file paperwork, pay to have the title transferred and all that stuff with an almost 80 year old woman meeting us. She seemed somewhat depressed when she signed her last papers giving us ownership. She said, "I guess this means you aren't putting money into my account anymore?". I laughed at the time as I thought she was joking. Today looking back I am not so sure she was joking.

A few months later we took out a major loan on the property to have the roof replaced, ten of the sixteen windows replaced as they barely kept out the rain let alone the cold and heat, and put siding on the house as the old lap siding was rotting and in need of paint. Oh we also had a termite outbreak on one corner that was found and had to get a contractor and a structural engineer out to replace one corner of a two story house. All in all we probably spent $40K on all of that work but we also borrowed against the equity of the house to pay off some school loans and some credit cards so all in we had a $60K mortgage.

Fast forward 4 years and we had to relocate and sell the house. We listed with an agent for $69K (this was back in 2000 and in OK LOL), and sold it, until the day before closing when the buyers called and backed out. We had also bought a home in the new town and now we had two home mortgages.

After two months of paying both mortgages we decided to rent the old home out since no one was making an offer. We were able to rent it for about $250 more than our monthly mortgage payment which also included a tax and insurance escrow so we thought we were golden and now had "investment property".

Everything was great until the renter called and said the toilet was backing up in the downstairs part of the house on a Sunday morning at 6AM. I go over and try to unclog it to no avail, had to call a plumber out on a Sunday to fix it. That was a $300 service call. First months rent did not even cover my costs.

The next month I get a call and the outside water faucet has sprung a leak and it leaking water into the backyard causing a swamp. I go over and hope to just replace the faucet but to no avail, the house has shifted slightly and the galvanized water line that was run through a solid concrete stair has broken. Called the plumber plus a concrete guy to cut out and replace a section of the stairs and I am out another $500 the second month.

Now I am two months into renting and I am negative returns on my investment property.

Month number three, the renter calls and tells me that the window AC is really noisy. I tell him I lived there for 8 years and it is not unusual for a large unit like that to be somewhat noisy but I will take a look. I go over, clean the filters, wash the evap coils, do a little sealing and tell him it is good to go. Thankfully nothing else happened that month but I am out about an hour of my time and an the travel to site.

Month number 4 - rent is late. I called the renter, he does not answer. I drop by the house, no one is home. I call a few days later, no answer. I drop by the house and he tells me he has had some circumstances and can only pay half rent but will get me the rest the first of the month along with the next months rent. Sure, he is a guy I played high school ball with, we all have bad months. I cut him some slack.

Month number 5 - rent is late again. No answer to calls, visits to the house or notes left on the door. Ten days after the first of the month I show up at the house with a "pay or get out" note. As I am visiting with the neighbors the renter shows up with a truck and a trailer. He doesn't have my money and he is only there to move the last pieces of his belongings into his new digs across town.

My money? Oh no he doesn't have any extra money as it is expensive to move water, electric, cable and pay first and last month's rent (which he could not do at the initial discussion of the lease with me) so he is tapped out. He was going to call me once he got everything out of the house and let me know at least. Thanks buddy!! I tell him to be out by morning as I would be over to replace the locks.

Month number 6 - House is empty, except for the dog poop that is all over the brand new carpet we had put down six months ago. And the dirty dishes that are piled up in the sink that are already hatching flies. Oh and there is still food in the fridge, which has been unplugged for two weeks since the power was turned off. The backyard had gone from a swamp to a bare patch of dirt after three dogs were added to the household that I did not know about. Three bags of trash left in the garage, a broken bicycle and a push mower missing the blade and front wheel. Oh and my table saw that was in the garage (I had to put in some trim around a window that had mysteriously got broken off) was somehow put in with his stuff and is now gone.

My wife and I start to clean up the house choking back tears as we discover the carnage. Throwing away dirty dishes (water was off also) and trying not to throw up cleaning the rancid food out of the fridge was only part of it.
We went upstairs and found that they had done some painting on the upstairs bedrooms that had not been approved. But alas when you paint, you should maybe cut in first and then use the roller, not use the roller and get close to the corners and just leave it. Also not that Charcoal Grey is not a great color, but maybe don't use a dark color for a room with only one window. Also blood red is not really a good color for a master bedroom either, especially when you spill some on the hardwood floors and don't clean it up.

But it gets better, while scraping the dog poo off of the carpet so we can at least get the house to not smell like a kennel. I happen to notice pain on one of my ankles. Then another ***** on another ankle a moment later. Then my wife smacks at her ankle and says something bit her. I notice that I have at least a half dozen fleas on me and they are hungry...
Freaked out by being eaten alive by fleas and the sheer overwhelming feelings of sadness we vacate the premises and take what trash we had accumulated to the curb, along with what the renter left.

At this point it is renter 1 - landlord - 0

We left the house vacant for three weeks we were so distraught. We only went back because the next months payment was due. My old neighbors agreed to let me run some extension cords from their house to allow us to clean (Oh did I mention that he left a $200 electric bill on the house and I would have to pay that or show a change in ownership before the power got turned back on). I also discovered that big noisy window unit had been replaced with a much smaller and much quieter window unit that was about half the BTU's of the original unit which did not cool the downstairs portion of the house.

We finally listed the house for sale as is, and sold it for what we had in it. We felt extremely lucky to just get out of that horror movie even though as landlords we would have been money ahead to just let it sit as it was.

My last house had almost $60K invested into it just a year before we decided to downsize, we did recoop that cost in the increase of the value of the house, but again it is all cyclical. It can cost you out of pocket whether you are the owner and live in the house or if it is an "investment property" and you are the landlord.

And just know, I am not a good landlord. I am too soft hearted, most always believe the best in people and discovered long ago that not all people think like me. My wife and I decided long ago that "investment properties" are not our thing.
I’ve got a couple rental units.

I’m a softy at heart and got really stressed trying to manage the process and tenants.

I looked around and finally found a property manager that I liked. She informed me that most owners are terrible landlords. Because they (owners) actually care!

She took over all aspects of management and runs a tight ship. She takes zero gruff from the tenants. Tells them if they act up, they’re gone. Arranges all repairs and maintenance. Of course, I pay her to do it.

End of the day, the numbers work and so far so good.
 

Toto'sDad

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There is really no point in arguing about renting and buying. People who rent have their reasons for renting, people who buy have their reasons for buying. You are at the mercy of SOMEONE, whether you rent or buy. You have to pay to live there whether you rent of buy. If you quit making your payments, or quit paying the rent, that SOMEONE will come and throw you out the door, and your hind in will bounce off the sidewalk, and it won't matter if you are a renter or an owner.
 

FuzzWatt

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it is like we have class warfare between the middle, lower middle and bottom and they crush each other when the people with real means never get touched or scrutinized and all the people fighting try to pretend that the system works for them when it is working against them and they are less than pawns.

Not to mention all the millions of people who vote against their own interests and regurgitate the slick political slogans of their opulent oppressors. Drives me mad.

Really enjoyed reading your whole post. Well said.
 

Toto'sDad

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Not to mention all the millions of people who vote against their own interests and regurgitate the slick political slogans of their opulent oppressors. Drives me mad.

Really enjoyed reading your whole post. Well said.
My son is an engineer. One of the first things he learned is NEVER replace something that is working, with something that DOESN'T. I'll leave the gentle reader to draw his own conclusions as to the meaning of my post.
 

FuzzWatt

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My son is an engineer. One of the first things he learned is NEVER replace something that is working, with something that DOESN'T. I'll leave the gentle reader to draw his own conclusions as to the meaning of my post.

I know what you mean. Few years ago part of my muffler fell off on the freeway. People kept asking me when I was going to get it fixed. I said, "I'm not."

It made my Corolla sound more badass and the low growl was in tune when I cranked Sabbath.
 

Wyzsard

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My current rent for a 4 bedroom house is less than a studio apt in a crack house in this town. Water bill is around 70 bucks a month and gas/electric averages 150 bucks a month the last couple of years since I put that window film on all the windows I never open.

Only because my landlord is a friend. I haven't even been able to hook up with him to pay the August rent yet. But he's not worried about it. When I do pay him he may carry the check around 2 or 3 months before he cashes it lol.

Anyhow I love it. HVAC, roof issues, etc. He deals with it.
 

Milspec

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Bingo. Most Americans (at ANY income level) have less than $1000 in the bank at any given time. That means that whether you're an owner/renter, statistically you're one unforeseen expense away from having nothing.

For example, we live in the midwest in a small city deemed to be one of the most affordable in the country. The median income around here is $40K; most houses in my neighborhood are $100-$150K.

My neighbor is in management in the automotive industry, making $75K+. He just recently got a new job making close to $100K, but was super worried that if he didnt time the transition just right then he might miss a single paycheck, which would apparently be financially catastrophic for him.

That blows my mind. We make significantly less money than him, we have more children, student loans, and have managed to save enough to take care of a financial emergency.
Not surprising really.

My brother managed to fall ass-backwards into wealth and receives a salary of $325,000 per year and his wife does even better, yet that guy never has any money liquid. Everything is tied up into expenses and he is always on the verge of tipping the boat into being broke.

For a lot of people, their spending habits match their incomes. So, if you earn a high amount, you also spend a high amount. When he installed the in ground pool, he had a semi-trailer of sand shipped in from Hawaii to create a beach around it. That is not the kind of expense that would ever cross my mind, nor the $12,000 he spent on the custom redwood bar counter top.

Those kind of expenditures blow my mind, but then I have a home studio full of vintage equipment on a mailman's income, so I can't judge too harshly.
 

bcorig

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Landlords in my area are leaving their properties vacant because of the risk that many renters now seem to think the Government has told them they don't have to pay rent, they don't pay and then it takes lawyers, ------, and money to get the squatters out.
 

wrathfuldeity

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Freedom, Slavery and Luck:

Freedom and slavery...depends on what side of the coin you want or hate to be on.

Owning gives you freedom to do what you want, but you are a slave to the house. Renting you are a slave to the landlord but free to leave whenever you want. And luck is what you make of it.

Chose to own, paid it off at 14 yrs and it is currently worth about 5x of what we paid 22 years ago...yup lucky. However, for 20 years slaved on the house every summer. Imo, owning only makes sense if you can do and afford the upkeep, repairs otherwise if you can't/don't want to, then renting is a better option.
 




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