58Bassman
Tele-Holic
I would like to see someone's reaction to my old Strat Plus and the Squire I recently bought when the strings are strummed- the sustain is >30 seconds and can be felt in the neck, even as the decay is ending.
Lou Tencodpees
Tele-Afflicted
I wonder if other non-musical adventures are equally confronted with blunt science that tries (does?) dismiss the "voodoo" that we do. Baseball bats, gloves, clothing apparel, lucky shoes, etc. Music/art is esoteric and in my estimation deserving of latitude that allows subscription to non-scientific thoughts and practices. The effect that has on the intangibles could be part of the artistic output.
I'm working on this - - but darned if my pack doesn't have a lot of W's in it, and I'm having a heck of a time sorting them all out.
Then there’s the third one - whatever the heck that thin finish is that Fender has been using on higher-end guitars that flakes/chips when you look at it wrong ?
Catalyzed lady tears ?/Unrealized dreams ?
I forget what they call it…
In electric guitars, an overwhelming amount of tone quality comes from factors other than finish, primarily pickups (forgetting about speakers, picks, strings, etc.).
But, there is no doubt finish will affect how the wood will vibrate, more so with hollow bodies than solid. Nitrocellulose is very hard and is lower in solution solids than other finishes, and this contributes to the thickness and continuity of the dried film. (Picture a layer of small marbles vibrating on a surface, as opposed to a thick layer of plastic film vibrating on the same surface.) NC is poorer in it's ability to block oxygen and moisture transmission through the film, and in that sense, it does "breathe" more than "poly" finishes, and this could affect how the wood ages, esp. at the wood/finish interface. In a hollow body guitar, there is still exposure to air and humidity from the inside.
So, does a finish affect sound? Probably... to a negligible degree once you consider all of the other factors, esp. to my old ears that never hear anything exactly the same way from day to day, anyway.
But, there is no doubt finish will affect how the wood will vibrate, more so with hollow bodies than solid. Nitrocellulose is very hard and is lower in solution solids than other finishes, and this contributes to the thickness and continuity of the dried film. (Picture a layer of small marbles vibrating on a surface, as opposed to a thick layer of plastic film vibrating on the same surface.) NC is poorer in it's ability to block oxygen and moisture transmission through the film, and in that sense, it does "breathe" more than "poly" finishes, and this could affect how the wood ages, esp. at the wood/finish interface. In a hollow body guitar, there is still exposure to air and humidity from the inside.
So, does a finish affect sound? Probably... to a negligible degree once you consider all of the other factors, esp. to my old ears that never hear anything exactly the same way from day to day, anyway.
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58Bassman
Tele-Holic
New or old guitars? I saw one that had a light metallic green with a big chip missing near the neck pocket. The only reason I can think of for that is sanding too fine or bad prep- I peeled the poly off of the neck when I removed the painter's tape on my SD Curlee, then tried using the Nitro I had, which failed because it was old and after I removed that, I used TruOil and that worked great. I sprayed the body with MinWax fast drying satin floor poly and that has been great, too. The one difference- the neck is Maple and the body is Mahogany, so the body has a lot more to hang onto.
Fender used Nitro, then switched to Polyester, IIRC. I think they also used some kind of two part acrylic, too. I'll have to read more to be sure since it has been a long time.
On non acoustic guitars I have not found any difference in a thin nitro or thick poly finish. My #1 Strat for 20 years was a super thick polyester finish. (Not poly urethane) It was the most resonant Strat (or any solid body for that matter) I have ever had at any price or country of manufacture. (MIM) I still have the body but changed to a semi hollow custom body last year due to my age and it's weight..
The combo of ALL the pieces in a guitar can have a difference though, and necks seem to make a huge part of it.
The combo of ALL the pieces in a guitar can have a difference though, and necks seem to make a huge part of it.
11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
A solidbody guitar has only negligible acoustic properties, and they're all a moot point, since pickups don't capture anything in the acoustic realm.
Because of the nature of solidbody pickup design, even the acoustic properties with semi-hollow or chambered bodies are likewise a moot point.
If someone likes the sound of a solidbody unplugged, that's not even really an apples-to-apples discussion, IMO.
IMO, finishes on a solidbody only concern aesthetics, or practical matters such as wear/feel/finish repairability.
The whole finish debate is right up there with 'how different fretboard materials sound' IMO. If someone really believes that nonsense, it's fine, as long as they don't try to convince me.
If anything, I think it's kind of ridiculous that solidbody guitars are still primarily made of wood at all in the 21st century. By choosing other materials, you could potentially lose the need to put a finish on it altogether...
Because of the nature of solidbody pickup design, even the acoustic properties with semi-hollow or chambered bodies are likewise a moot point.
If someone likes the sound of a solidbody unplugged, that's not even really an apples-to-apples discussion, IMO.
IMO, finishes on a solidbody only concern aesthetics, or practical matters such as wear/feel/finish repairability.
The whole finish debate is right up there with 'how different fretboard materials sound' IMO. If someone really believes that nonsense, it's fine, as long as they don't try to convince me.
If anything, I think it's kind of ridiculous that solidbody guitars are still primarily made of wood at all in the 21st century. By choosing other materials, you could potentially lose the need to put a finish on it altogether...
MTPoteet
Tele-Holic
No trick, I'm really curious if anyone can tell. As stated in the original post, so far no takersCool trick to get more S/C listeners.
Fiesta Red
Doctor of Teleocity
Everything matters.
Wood, construction, vibrato/tremolo—including what type of vibrato—vs non-vibrato/hardtail, finish, nut/nut material, fretboard, saddles, scale length, tuners, potentiometer values, set neck vs bolt-on, even the setup…all of it matters.
However, how much each of those factors matter is variable.
Some of those factors are only a fraction of a percent in difference, some are going to make a much larger difference…but if you take two guitars that have the complete opposite features/material listed above and put the same set of pickups into each of the guitars (switch the same set from one guitar to the other), they will probably sound noticeably different—because all those fractions of a percent added up.
Having said all that, I think finish (poly vs nitro vs oil-rubbed vs raw) is probably the least-noticeable factor in recordings.
Not saying it has no effect, but on recordings or in a band mix, it’s probably the least-significant factor.
It can affect the way it feels—sometimes drastically, in my experience.
Wood, construction, vibrato/tremolo—including what type of vibrato—vs non-vibrato/hardtail, finish, nut/nut material, fretboard, saddles, scale length, tuners, potentiometer values, set neck vs bolt-on, even the setup…all of it matters.
However, how much each of those factors matter is variable.
Some of those factors are only a fraction of a percent in difference, some are going to make a much larger difference…but if you take two guitars that have the complete opposite features/material listed above and put the same set of pickups into each of the guitars (switch the same set from one guitar to the other), they will probably sound noticeably different—because all those fractions of a percent added up.
Having said all that, I think finish (poly vs nitro vs oil-rubbed vs raw) is probably the least-noticeable factor in recordings.
Not saying it has no effect, but on recordings or in a band mix, it’s probably the least-significant factor.
It can affect the way it feels—sometimes drastically, in my experience.
There’s no link. Not that I’m going there. This is a non issue for me.
That’s why nobody (except me) likes Steve Morse or Steve Lukather or Steve Austin. Because those MusicMan guitars don’t have pre-worn nitro. It makes all the difference, I’m told.
Manual Slim
Poster Extraordinaire
I'm not going out of my way to sniff them but when I open the cases there is definitely a smell. When I plug them in and fire them up though it's still an unholy racket regardless of what the finish is.
