I am a blessed and happy man

65 Champ Amp

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I led worship at a small church for over 20 years. Sometimes with a drummer/singer (pastor’s brother), sometimes with a girl singer (pastor’s daughter), but a lot of the time solo.
I bought and put together the sound system, and played either my ‘85 Collector’s Edition Ovation, or a Tele through a Mesa Subway Rocket. Chose the music, printed the charts, scheduled the rehearsals, all the usual stuff.

In late ‘21, when the landlord eased his no singing covid rules, I figured we’d be getting back to live worship soon. The pastor had told me “soon”.

We walked in one Sunday to find the pastor’s nephew and his college aged buddies had replaced me. Nothing was ever said to me ahead of time. Just them telling each other “we’re so lucky! We have a new worship team”. They were ok, but clearly youth and the right look must have been what they felt they needed.
That was a strange day. No one would look at me. The pastor and his brother avoided eye contact with my wife and me. My wife and I just sat there looking at each other with unspoken questions. And even the normally chatty women ignored my wife.
We did have talks with the pastor and his wife, as well as with the elders, within the following three weeks, but all that did was confirm that we needed to move on.
I think (I think~ because no one had the courage to speak honestly) that the pastor’s wife was the driving force. She had a “vision” of a stage full of youth musicians so she could fulfill her vision of a big growing church, and I’m a 66 year old graybeard. More power to them, and I wish them well.

And for the last few years I’d been the lead guitarist for a woman, a singer songwriter. We did a monthly worship in their old barn. We lost our bassist and sometime drummer during the covid shenanigans but continued on as a duo. Until late last year, when her MS flared up and she had to hang it up. So two bands to no bands.

So I spent a year just practicing. Which even though I’ve played guitar for 55 years, has been really good for me.

Well, after a year, we decided to poke around and find another church. And I knew better than to be looking for another place to play guitar ~ finding the right church was more important.

Besides getting used to going from being the main instrumentalist in two bands to being in nothing, I did a lot of introspection. The usual stuff~ what did I do wrong, what could I have done better, am I too old?🤪
Lots of good can come from that, if you’re honest with yourself.

Two things I’ll mention here ~ Church First/Guitar Second. Never stay in a church just because they let you play guitar. Second ~ No, I am not too old!🥴
Please don’t think this is sour grapes, but sometimes you have to step away for a time to see things you overlooked. Things like how my wife never developed many close women friends at that church even though she always volunteered and helped out, things like how when I was paralyzed with a rare disease and spent most of 2012 in the hospital, and none of my church family visited. Not once.
It ran it’s course, and I forgive them just as I hope they forgive me for my shortcomings.

My 30 yr old daughter has Down Syndrome. She and I were poking around back in Menards, when a guy said “I have a son like your daughter”. So we started talking. He’s my age, his son is my daughter’s age, he plays guitar, and he invited us to check out his church.

So we did, after promising my wife, and myself, that finding the right church for us came first. I would not go into it just looking for a place to play guitar. Easily said, right? But I meant it.
Well, as it turns out, it IS the right church home for us. And since God is good, this church is full of music and talent.
My new friend, Dave, who has also never played in front of this church, has invited me for some Sat morning jams. After the first one, the pastor came up to me and said “I hear we have a new lead guitarist”. I had to tell him I live to play, and love to serve by playing, but want to take it slow and wait to be invited by the regulars.

Today he played bass with us.

So long story, but we are now working on some songs that we will be invited to play when we’re ready. And some of the regular Sunday folks have been joining us ~ their regular guitarist/banjo guy, the young lady singer, and a fiddle player and mandolin player may join us too. So it looks like we won’t be stepping into anyone’s territory, or threatening anyone’s “ownership”. That’s a breath of fresh air as well as a lesson to me. It’s all about humility and serving.

And I have their blessing to bring an amp and my Tele to the next jam.😎

If you’ve made it this far, thank you!
And if you’re so inclined and led, pray for me. Pray that I can just find a small way to fit in and serve.

God’s led me on a great path, and shown me things. Good and not so good. Recovering when they said I would die, losing a son in Afghanistan, and getting unceremoniously dumped from being Worship Leader. Good has come of all of it.
Life is good, aint it?
 
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telepraise

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Beautiful Story! It sounds like your transition should have happened ten years ago, but God did lead you to the right place in the end. Peace~ TP

PS- better keep a close eye on that banjo player (I play bluegrass too)
 

studio

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It's wonderful to hear that God can still move you in the right direction!

Too many try and find their own path when God is moving slowly because
He is making sure all the I's are dotted and all the T's are crossed!

The thread I posted the other day about the Guitar classes is a post
in triumph. At my young age of 62, I hope to have a platform to pass on my
skill and insight to others especially young people.

For awhile there during the thick of world cough i had thought my playing days
were over, a thing of the past. But here we are 3 years out and I'm a pretty
busy senior in my little music circle!

I jam with two different groups of folk and have got 3 people to clean
out their garages and transform them from a pipe dream into real
band rooms with recording abilities!

Plus, I still have clients that want to do more recording in my home studio.
You mean, I can even get paid? Wooohoo!

I will certainly pray for your skills to be used as a shining example of God's
goodness and that whatever funk or depression a lull in action may set in,
I pray that you take comfort in knowing that God has once again opened doors!

He's really good at that ya know!
 

Ascension

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Great story. Is similar in may ways to mine as i have always said I would come to a church AND play if the door opened but I would never come TO play.
Where I am now I would have never picked on my own. Had gone through a big mega church blow up and the place I had been for years and thought I would never leave imploded around me. It was like loosing my family as that core team was very close. For a few years I kinda wandered from place to place playing when I could a little but never feeling like I really belonged anywhere. Then the former Worship leader started a church and asked me to work with them then that church folded. Went through a few rounds like this then finally just sat the guitar down and looked for a home but never really plugged in any where. That was until I got a call from a friend asking me to set in with a little country church. He kinda reamed me for not playing anywhere and pushed me to get back in the "game" so I reluctantly agreed to fill in. First practice musically when well but the church was definitely not what I was used to very laid back "calm"and to me kinda dead. I like the folks and the pastor a lot and am not plugged in anywhere so I stuck around for a while as it was "comfortable". Soon found that this little place was far far deeper that I had thought spiritually and while it was a place I would have never picked on my own as home HE had a different plan.
What changed everything was the day the Pastor sat the praise team down reamed both us and the congregation for just going through the motions in worship and just starts singing some old hymns badly off key while insisting we enter in and that we are staying there until we saw a breakthrough. The pastor pushed hard but the rest of the group seemingly had no idea where to go so I suddenly felt lead to do something to try and break it. I drop into a simple 3 chord riff and do something I absolutely never do in public and lead both with my guitar and my awful vocals and just flow like I do here alone at the house. Thankfully the worship leader eventually caught it stepped in then the rest entered in with us and off we went. Something changed in me that day as I had suddenly found a home but also changed in that church. It was painful at first but it changed me and also changed that church.
The clip here is where you hear and feel things begin to break and change as the worship leader and rest of the team catch it come in and just spontaneously begin to flow with me. I instantly saw that little Church MUCH differently after that day and knew I had found a new home.
Well it's been 5 or so years now and I'm still driving 50 or so miles from the house every service but its where for this time I feel like I really belong.
I almost quit playing worship all together out of frustration and hurt but HE had a different plan.
I pray that some thing like this happens with you in your new home.
Sounds like you are on the same kind of path I was, congrats and enjoy the ride!
 

4 Cat Slim

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All good stories here. I can relate in some way to much of what is expressed.
I played for some ten years in a church until my health issues as
well as the lockdown disrupted everything. A few other matters were changing within the church, so I
felt it was best to step down. I enjoy serving and encouraging musical expression and praise, so I
hope that doors open soon.
 

GoldieLocks

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Yep, three times now I've watched churches with a YOUTHFULL worship band go from 25 to 50 musicians... down to 1 or 2. Youth simply DO NOT STICK AROUND. A smart church keeps a balance of elderly committed members deep in the groove.

God can gloriously put you RIGHT where He needs you. Enjoy! My wife and I are excited about the same thing.
 

65 Champ Amp

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God can gloriously put you RIGHT where He needs you. Enjoy! My wife and I are excited about the same thing.
Well said. He had a plan. Thankfully, I was patient.
Got together at the church yesterday for one of our little sessions, and my friend told me “you’re playing tomorrow.” 🤓
I took my ‘85 Collector’s Edition Ovation, and a tiny board ~ hey! Gimme time to sneak the Pro Reverb and Tele in!
The WL plays piano and after rehearsal, I had to compliment her on how great she is to play with.
And I made sure to make friends with the BOSS, aka: Mr Soundman.
See? Old guys learn after a while.

I had a blast, and later during coffee ‘n snacks time, I thanked the WL for allowing me to sit in. She asked for my email, so we’ll see if I get asked back. If and when, I’ll be ready.
 

JuneauMike

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Great story. I see similarities in your testimony and am experiencing a period of seeking a new church myself. My old church isn't consumed by youth, but it's problems seem to be more in the "spirit" aspect of worship. In fact, they don't have music anymore, they just play a recording for folks to sing along with.

Having studied the issue of growing a church in the past I find what I think is the real answer absolutely ironic. Thriving churches don't need youth, what they need are men. And that's exactly the thing that churches often have no real enthusiasm to pursue. Nothing to do with music.
 

black_doug

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Great story. I see similarities in your testimony and am experiencing a period of seeking a new church myself. My old church isn't consumed by youth, but it's problems seem to be more in the "spirit" aspect of worship. In fact, they don't have music anymore, they just play a recording for folks to sing along with.

Having studied the issue of growing a church in the past I find what I think is the real answer absolutely ironic. Thriving churches don't need youth, what they need are men. And that's exactly the thing that churches often have no real enthusiasm to pursue. Nothing to do with music.

I just came back from a life-changing retreat where the teaching was healing and deliverance. There were twenty women, and four men.

My suspicion is that too many men are living with an addiction to porn, and the shame that goes with it.
 

JuneauMike

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I just came back from a life-changing retreat where the teaching was healing and deliverance. There were twenty women, and four men.

My suspicion is that too many men are living with an addiction to porn, and the shame that goes with it.
I think the things that made me conclude that my church wasn't really feeding me anymore in a spiritual sense was much broader, and more general. Western churches have been overly feminized and plenty of people have written on this topic before. I think I just began seeing the stark reality of that in our post (virus that shall remain nameless) World Cough period where we saw a big fallaway of families (coincidentally many musicians took their families to other churches as it turned out). Staying in touch with folks, I learned that none quit going to church, they just sought out a different one.

And this hyper-feminization of the church can also be seen quite a bit in modern P&W music that we play. Lots of self-referential themes and language that seems out of place to corporate worship of a powerful entity (a God of wrath and justice too, right? Why do we so often ignore that in our music?), just lots of self-therapy themes. I never appreciated hymns much, but I realize that their terms and subject matters are often masculine in nature. That may be a thing that appeals to folks. I do love the trend in some music circles to modernize hymns to pop music sensibilities to make them more accessible (Red Mountain Church; Indelible Grace project, etc). And let's face it, they were the pop songs of their time, so what's wrong with freshening up the instrumentation and song structure?

But to cut to the chase, when we studied this several years ago as a way to head off our declining numbers, some of the scholarly works that I read made me believe that men are an important influencer in a house and when the man brings his family to church the children generally stay with the faith. When the woman is the driving force behind church participation, those children eventually fall away from the church in the future at much greater numbers. Lots more issues than that with respect to feminized worship, but that was one main takeaway I got. Men have far more influence over the family than we are led to believe they do. They are difficult to entice into going, easily repelled by church polity and organization, don't fall into social structures easily, don't like volunteering or getting involved in general, and are basically tough customers. But churches that lack strong male numbers are usually declining as a result. And churches in many cases have lost the ability to speak to them in ways that inspire their involvement. (oddly, the Christian faith is the only world religion where male participation is declining.)

Music doesn't fix this, but I suspect it can play a role. I'm just not smart enough to know what that is.
 
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Refugee

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Hmm, as someone who is not Christian, I have read quite a few posts regarding the type of manipulation and back stabbing behaviors that some revert to. Dang, is that really WJWD? I didn't read more than half of the OP, as its just too long. I've played in quite a few bands and we never treated each other like that.
 

Ascension

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Hmm, as someone who is not Christian, I have read quite a few posts regarding the type of manipulation and back stabbing behaviors that some revert to. Dang, is that really WJWD? I didn't read more than half of the OP, as its just too long. I've played in quite a few bands and we never treated each other like that.
Through history of the faith there have always been those who were religious with no true relationship to the God some of us serve. They walk in arrogance and judgment stoned the prophets and crucified Christ. It is a serious mistake to judge an entire faith for the actions of those like this. They absolutely do not represent the teachings of our faith. In fact Jesus spoke of them quite harshly himself here Mathew 23 ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."
Every one who walks through the door of a Christian Church is not truly Christian.
For those who are Jesus said this.John 15 35 If you love each other, everyone will know that you are my disciples. ... By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.
Hang around here a while and you might get a different perspective on all this from those here.
 

BluesMann

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Sep 15, 2015
Posts
308
Location
Delaware
I led worship at a small church for over 20 years. Sometimes with a drummer/singer (pastor’s brother), sometimes with a girl singer (pastor’s daughter), but a lot of the time solo.
I bought and put together the sound system, and played either my ‘85 Collector’s Edition Ovation, or a Tele through a Mesa Subway Rocket. Chose the music, printed the charts, scheduled the rehearsals, all the usual stuff.

In late ‘21, when the landlord eased his no singing covid rules, I figured we’d be getting back to live worship soon. The pastor had told me “soon”.

We walked in one Sunday to find the pastor’s nephew and his college aged buddies had replaced me. Nothing was ever said to me ahead of time. Just them telling each other “we’re so lucky! We have a new worship team”. They were ok, but clearly youth and the right look must have been what they felt they needed.
That was a strange day. No one would look at me. The pastor and his brother avoided eye contact with my wife and me. My wife and I just sat there looking at each other with unspoken questions. And even the normally chatty women ignored my wife.
We did have talks with the pastor and his wife, as well as with the elders, within the following three weeks, but all that did was confirm that we needed to move on.
I think (I think~ because no one had the courage to speak honestly) that the pastor’s wife was the driving force. She had a “vision” of a stage full of youth musicians so she could fulfill her vision of a big growing church, and I’m a 66 year old graybeard. More power to them, and I wish them well.

And for the last few years I’d been the lead guitarist for a woman, a singer songwriter. We did a monthly worship in their old barn. We lost our bassist and sometime drummer during the covid shenanigans but continued on as a duo. Until late last year, when her MS flared up and she had to hang it up. So two bands to no bands.

So I spent a year just practicing. Which even though I’ve played guitar for 55 years, has been really good for me.

Well, after a year, we decided to poke around and find another church. And I knew better than to be looking for another place to play guitar ~ finding the right church was more important.

Besides getting used to going from being the main instrumentalist in two bands to being in nothing, I did a lot of introspection. The usual stuff~ what did I do wrong, what could I have done better, am I too old?🤪
Lots of good can come from that, if you’re honest with yourself.

Two things I’ll mention here ~ Church First/Guitar Second. Never stay in a church just because they let you play guitar. Second ~ No, I am not too old!🥴
Please don’t think this is sour grapes, but sometimes you have to step away for a time to see things you overlooked. Things like how my wife never developed many close women friends at that church even though she always volunteered and helped out, things like how when I was paralyzed with a rare disease and spent most of 2012 in the hospital, and none of my church family visited. Not once.
It ran it’s course, and I forgive them just as I hope they forgive me for my shortcomings.

My 30 yr old daughter has Down Syndrome. She and I were poking around back in Menards, when a guy said “I have a son like your daughter”. So we started talking. He’s my age, his son is my daughter’s age, he plays guitar, and he invited us to check out his church.

So we did, after promising my wife, and myself, that finding the right church for us came first. I would not go into it just looking for a place to play guitar. Easily said, right? But I meant it.
Well, as it turns out, it IS the right church home for us. And since God is good, this church is full of music and talent.
My new friend, Dave, who has also never played in front of this church, has invited me for some Sat morning jams. After the first one, the pastor came up to me and said “I hear we have a new lead guitarist”. I had to tell him I live to play, and love to serve by playing, but want to take it slow and wait to be invited by the regulars.

Today he played bass with us.

So long story, but we are now working on some songs that we will be invited to play when we’re ready. And some of the regular Sunday folks have been joining us ~ their regular guitarist/banjo guy, the young lady singer, and a fiddle player and mandolin player may join us too. So it looks like we won’t be stepping into anyone’s territory, or threatening anyone’s “ownership”. That’s a breath of fresh air as well as a lesson to me. It’s all about humility and serving.

And I have their blessing to bring an amp and my Tele to the next jam.😎

If you’ve made it this far, thank you!
And if you’re so inclined and led, pray for me. Pray that I can just find a small way to fit in and serve.

God’s led me on a great path, and shown me things. Good and not so good. Recovering when they said I would die, losing a son in Afghanistan, and getting unceremoniously dumped from being Worship Leader. Good has come of all of it.
Life is good, aint it?
Life IS good, and God IS good. Sometimes we just have to slow down enough to hear him because he IS always there. What a great journey for you. Hope it continues to be good one for you. My pastor always tell me I need to do less, listen more. HE is always with us.
 

BluesMann

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Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Posts
308
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Delaware
Through history of the faith there have always been those who were religious with no true relationship to the God some of us serve. They walk in arrogance and judgment stoned the prophets and crucified Christ. It is a serious mistake to judge an entire faith for the actions of those like this. They absolutely do not represent the teachings of our faith. In fact Jesus spoke of them quite harshly himself here Mathew 23 ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."
Every one who walks through the door of a Christian Church is not truly Christian.
For those who are Jesus said this.John 15 35 If you love each other, everyone will know that you are my disciples. ... By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.
Hang around here a while and you might get a different perspective on all this from those here.
Amen to all of the above. Well said.
 

JuneauMike

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Hmm, as someone who is not Christian, I have read quite a few posts regarding the type of manipulation and back stabbing behaviors that some revert to. Dang, is that really WJWD? I didn't read more than half of the OP, as its just too long. I've played in quite a few bands and we never treated each other like that.
If you've played in quite a few bands and never had conflict or some level of hostility in the band I'd say you are the exception rather than the rule. You are definitely lucky to have found those people. One of the most important alt-country bands of the 90s ended because one of the singer/songwriter's had a crush on the other singer/songwriter's girlfriend. That messy break-up spawned two awesome bands, but still, they had other important work to do. I once watched a secular band get in a fight during setup over a microphone placement (Their absence was not felt by the music world, charitably). All humans are born to worship, and to many humans music is a deeply felt experience/pursuit. Music is serious stuff, why wouldn't Christian music be just as serious?

My experience is that the mortals who run churches are usually not great at managing or even facing conflict and the downstream effect is all sorts of awkward encounters and poorly communicated messages. I'm not surprised that conflicts are going to arise in churches that center on music, and am less surprised that they aren't all handled with aplomb, grace and interpersonal precision. The OP is dripping with that.

Now if your take-away message is that Christians are flawed people. Amen. I sure am, and I could probably tell you exactly how flawed I am at any given moment. For instance, right now I could use more Paul and less Peter in my interactions in this space.

(And BTW, it's great that someone outside the "church scene" is posting about a music issue here. Thanks for taking the time and for your perspective. I think secular musicians much more readily embrace the concept of a band as a cohesive unit, churches for some reason get uncomfortable approaching music in that way. Mostly we're just a haphazard ensemble of volunteers and conscripts who happen to be providing music on that particular Sunday. Come to think of it, that'd be a great issue to discuss in another thread)
 
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FortyEight

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LORD, I want to pray for everyone involved in this thread right now. Lead and guide us to have hearts to wait on you. to serve u in whatever job u call us to do. to see places in our local church where we can help. and to do work as "unto the LORD". because you and your plans are all that matter. if u can use our musical skills to further your kingdom, amen. if not, let us serve faithfully and cheerfully.

we pray for lost souls. whether they are seeking you currently or not. please give us your love and heart to be patient with others in and out of the church.

i want to do what Jesus said and love you with all my heart and all my soul and love my neighbor as myself. and be bold to be in the world to make disciples. in whatever place u want me.

God give us strength.
 
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