Huge tonal difference between 50’s vs 60’s spec Telecasters

[Bad Influence]

I need some expert opinions on this one…

For the last 7-8 years I have been only playing with a Custom Shop 60’s Telecaster as my main guitar. It was my only Telecaster, until recently I bought a used 2015 American Vintage series ’52. (Pure Vintage series as some might say.)

Having a 60’s spec Tele (alder body, rosewood board, stock 60’s Fender pickups) I bought this all stock ’52 for some variety as it had a one piece ash body, maple neck and stock pickups. It seemed ok until I started playing them side by side at my home setup. This '52 Tele started sounding dull to my ears. I don’t know how to describe this, but compared to my 60’s Tele, the string to string separation is not present when playing chords. It’s more muffled and boomy.

I tried adjusting the height of the pickups with no use… Then put a set of Lollar Special T pickups (as I like slighty hotter output) with new 250k pots. It made a difference, but not so much. I still get the same tonal characteristics. What else I should try before letting it go? Would changing the stock bridge and saddles make a difference? Or maybe is it just the character of the body & neck wood combination? I would like to know your opinions and suggestion on this one if you have the time... Many thanks.

 

[Jullecaster]

Steel saddles on the 60s and brass on the 50s? Shouldn't make such an extreme difference but it's there

 

[Bad Influence]

Steel saddles on the 60s and brass on the 50s? Shouldn't make such an extreme difference but it's there

Oh I forgot to tell... The only mod on my 60's Tele is a set of Fender brass saddles instead of stock steel ones.

 

[JesterR]

Guitars sounds different. That's how it is.

 

[boris bubbanov]

Guitar necks, are a lot of what this is about. Not recommending that the O.P. do a switch swap of the necks on these 2 guitars, but some of us do it and I'm impressed by how much of the character of one guitar or another - is in that neck.

 

[boris bubbanov]

One of the "voodoo" things we don't talk about here, I guess because it could be such a black box, is each neck has a different amount of torque on the truss rod nut, and that neck simply has to have this much or that much torque to have the right amount of relief (for that specific neck) but the amount of torque applied to that truss rod determines how much "steel" and how much "wood" you hear when that neck is attached to a loaded body and strung up, set up and played in. But you take what you get, when it comes to this, and other than pickups and their height, there's no other "variable" in an assembled electric guitar that is more out of our control.

 

[kuch]

I've owned several AVRI 52 teles in the past and they've all sounded great after removing the "dark" cap, installing the replacement, and rewiring the switch. The instructions/diagrams were included with the guitars otherwise you'll have to look online for the technical details.
Has this been done to your 52?

 

[Killing Floor]

Daphne sounds better to me.

 

[Andy B]

Brass saddles would be an improvement in my experience.

 

[Ljislink24]

Just MHO. If you really really like the 52 than I'd try getting some different pick-ups & controls in it & you'll find the tone your seeking. If your just OK with it sell it and move on. Wood & bridges can affect tone but no where close to what what a pick-up will do.
I have a Player Plus tele, played an Ultra in a store went back with my tele played them back to back & my PP sounded exactly like what you described compared to the Ultra. I than bought the Ultra pick ups put them in the PP & it now sounds so close to the Ultra it's very hard to tell them apart.

 

[El Tele Lobo]

I would try a set of 60s era – style pick ups like the Cavalier Bakersfield set or the OC Duff buckaroo set. Bootstrap Palo Duros are another option. And if you wanna get really scientific… Try and find the same set of stock pickups that are in your 60s-era telecaster.

60s era pickups have different magnets (A5 versus 50s era A3 or A2) in different output levels than 50s era ones.

My experience has been that 50s era pickups tend to be darker with more of a syrupy attack and 60s era tend to be brighter with more presence and high-end and a sharper attack. Bear in mind there were fairly wide variances in both varieties as back then pickup winding was not the science it is today.

 

[loudboy]

I just got a '60s Custom partscaster - double-bound Squier alder body, Allparts RW board TRO-V neck, Fender vintage bridge w/Wilkinson brass saddles, and Fender Pure '64 PUs.

It plays/sounds/feels completely different than my '50s style Partscaster, as well as my real '57, while still sounding like a Tele.

Cleared and a little more defined, without as much attack. The strangest part is something with the string tension that makes it feel like there are .009s on it, even tho it's the same .010s I use on the other ones.

 

[Dukex]

Brass saddles would be an improvement in my experience.

It already has brass saddles.

 

[fender4life]

The woods, especially maple vs RW fingerboard is a huge difference. They will sound very different. However, your description of the 52 sounds to me like you may have a bit of a dud. Saddles matter a lot as do pickups, but what u describe should not happen no matter what saddles and pickups.

I have the opposite situation than yours. I have 2 teles, a RW/alder and an ash/maple. And while the tonal issue is not the same as yours, the RW/alder just doesnt sound great no matter what saddles or pickups, and i've tried a ton. The ash/maple on the other hand sounds fantastic no matter what saddles or pickups. They cause it to sound different, but it's like different flavors of tonal heaven. And to be clear, i LOVE alder/RW teles generally and the last one i has was one of those "kicking myself" guitars for selling it. So it;s not the designwood, its just a case of abad sounding piece of wood. (the neck i believe being the responsible part) It's not remotely uncommon. I have run into many.

 

[Gsweng]

Just for grins, I’d suggest you check the neck pocket and make sure the neck is properly seated in the pocket. Loosen the strings a little, then loosen the neck bolts a little. Pull down on the neck and make sure the neck is seated all the way into the pocket. Then tighten the neck bolts and tune up.

 

[boris bubbanov]

Just for grins, I’d suggest you check the neck pocket and make sure the neck is properly seated in the pocket. Loosen the strings a little, then loosen the neck bolts a little. Pull down on the neck and make sure the neck is seated all the way into the pocket. Then tighten the neck bolts and tune up.

+1!

 

[AlbertaGriff]

I've owned several AVRI 52 teles in the past and they've all sounded great after removing the "dark" cap, installing the replacement, and rewiring the switch. The instructions/diagrams were included with the guitars otherwise you'll have to look online for the technical details.
Has this been done to your 52?

The 2012-2017 AV '52 Teles came wired the modern way as standard.

OP, I think you are hearing the differences between a 50s and 60s style Tele. Are you adjusting your amp eq at all as you switch between the two? It could be that your 60s Tele is bright, and you've adjusted your amp to tame some of that to where it sounds sweet, but those same settings are limiting the 50s Tele. Just a thought.

 

[mimmo]

The 2012-2017 AV '52 Teles came wired the modern way as standard.

OP, I think you are hearing the differences between a 50s and 60s style Tele. Are you adjusting your amp eq at all as you switch between the two? It could be that your 60s Tele is bright, and you've adjusted your amp to tame some of that to where it sounds sweet, but those same settings are limiting the 50s Tele. Just a thought.

That's a very good point.

 

[Bad Influence]

Many thanks to all who replied. Reading through your comments a lot has popped in my mind…

First of all I really like the '52. The lightweight ash body, the smooth maple neck and 7.25 radius definitely has its own feeling. So I will try to solve it out and try to make this a keeper…

The bright cap is off. Actually I put together a whole new control plate with new parts and soldered it myself because they were all scratchy when I got the guitar.

I totally agree on amp setup issues and how new pickups can affect the sound, but I’m not thinking of going down that road because the difference between these two guitars is already present playing unplugged. The 60’s Tele has a much more wider, brighter and louder attack compared to 52. …and that made me start thinking maybe my CS 60’s Tele is a rare special one.

I think the neck maybe to blame as Boris have mentioned. I have some options here as to prove if that is the thing. I have friends who own similar, great sounding 52 RI Telecasters. I already asked the favor to swap necks and have a test run.

Will keep you posted soon and thank you for all the thoughts.

 

[radiocaster]

Fender pickups from the 60s are generally brighter and have lower output. I would imagine the reissues also have the appropriate pickups.