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How to wire 200k resistor for bridge pup on 3-way Tele switch

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by theprofessor, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    I saw this diagram that I believe @Derek Kiernan posted on TDPRI at some point. It seems to be from Bill Lawrence.
    tele3way.jpg
    Since my wiring is a bit different, I'd like some help figuring out where to place a 200k resistor to ground from the switch in order to gauge its effect on reducing the peak frequency on a Tele bridge pickup. I can follow diagrams and can solder and all, but I don't fully understand how switches work, so I don't know where it goes.

    Here is the way my control plate is wired:

    file:///G:/My%20Drive/Guitar%20Stuff/Wiring%20diagrams/Tele_Standard_wiring.pdf

    Thanks!
     
    Derek Kiernan and ahnadr like this.
  2. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Your link is inaccessible, it being on your own hard drive looks like.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  3. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Anyway, here it is:

    Screen Shot 2018-12-12 at 10.19.22 PM.png


    The Tele I just built, with it's solid rosewood neck, is SUPER bright. I needed to have the combined resistor + vol pot value (approx 250k) equal down around 90k before it clipped enough icepick. Use a parallel resistor calculator like this one to figure it out, based on your actual pot value: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-paralresist.htm

    For example, if your pot was precisely 250k, you might want a 140k resistor to accomplish the same - if you needed to go that dark.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  4. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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  5. ahnadr

    ahnadr TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for the Bill Lawrence diagram!
     
  6. rigatele

    rigatele Tele-Afflicted

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    You don't need to understand switches for this, because the switch is not in the circuit in this case - it does not switch the resistor at all. It's just used as a convenient solder point. Any connection between pickup hot and ground will work.
     
  7. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    I see. So it's irrelevant how I've wired my particular switch, as long as it works the way I want it to. I simply have to put the resistor between the positive lead of my bridge pickup (wherever that attaches on the switch) and ground, and I'm good to go.

    Thanks!
     
    Derek Kiernan likes this.
  8. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'd like to re-visit this post, if I may. I came back to some of my wiring in one of my Teles, and in looking at the Bill Lawrence image I posted above and my own Tele wiring: will this work just as well as the Lawrence schematic above? And if so, why? That last question is what I really want to get to the bottom of. I just don't understand what each of the connections is doing.

    This is with a CRL 3-way switch and for two Tele single-coils (EDIT: now that I've posted it, I see that I wrote 220k instead of 200k, since I'm accustomed to seeing a goodly number of 220k resistors in Fender amps).

    Tele-3-way_00001.jpg
     
  9. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Your switch terminal numbering is confusing. The way the switches work, each pole (left and right in your terms) has a common, and three other terminals, one for each of the three positions. You don't identify which are the commons. If you see my diagram from post #3, your switch is likely to be like that one, with the commons being (in your terms) R1 and L4. But, with any switch that you don't understand, I always recommend using a meter to test for continuity in all the positions, so you're SURE how that particular model works.

    If it's like I suppose is likely, then I don't see your latest circuit working, as you only connect R4 to the volume pot's input. This terminal is only active in neck position.
     
  10. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    Moosie - Thanks very much. I just labeled them left and right because I have no understanding of switches. So, if I infer from what you're saying, each "side" represents a "pole," wherein three of the terminals are for the three positions (neck-middle-bridge) and one of the terminals is common. So I need to find a diagram of a CRL 3-way switch to determine which terminal on each pole is the common? How does one find out? That's really the question behind my question, because if I understood it, I think I could do it easily.
     
  11. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    I found this photo by TDPRI member @R. Stratenstein . This is my exact switch. I've never used this switch before.

    The first thing I notice is that I have the switch flipped around the wrong direction, so I'm going to change that first. Then I'll start to look at my wiring again and figure the dam$ thing out.

    CRL Switch Wiring.jpg
     
  12. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Refer to post #3. That's a CRL. Green terminals are the commons. And the small numbering on the switch shows the positions. '1' is bridge-most, and '3' is neck-most. Reversed of course because the switch tip above the control plate moves opposite to the wiper below.
     
  13. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    Thank you very much!
     
  14. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    That photo in post #11 still doesn't show the commons. You'd have to infer that the pickup hots are connected to the commons, and that's not always the case. Flipping the switch 180 doesn't change anything - it's symmetrical.
     
  15. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    Why did you connect the pots like that and have your output jack ground going from the grounded wiper of the volume pot, rather than simply from the back of the tone pot?
     
  16. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Aside from trying to understand how three-way switches work, was there a bigger question here? What do you want the circuit to do? If it's just 'normal Tele', but in Bridge position ONLY, apply the resistor, that's also shown in post #3.
     
  17. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    Nope, just trying to understand switching basics. Even switch diagramming doesn't tell me much. They're essentially pictures. But knowing things like the fact that switches are symmetrical and that I need to locate the commons and the like is remedial information that I never got. I have just copied pictures. I'm tired of doing that, and it's getting me confused. So that's why I'm posting.
     
  18. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    The output to the jack always comes from the volume pot in my diagrams. Always.

    If wired my way, and the ground wire between the pots, or on the tone pot shell, were to fail, I'd have a dead tone pot, no big deal. Fix it after the show. If wired as most (even Fender) do it, connecting the output jack to the back of the tone pot, and it fails, you now have a dead guitar.

    Keep in mind, while it may be unlikely for the wire between the pot shells to fail, it is subject to twisting pressure if a pot comes loose and starts to spin, if the builder didn't leave a bit of slack. But more likely, and worse, is reliance on the control plate's conductivity, and not having any wire between the pots at all. This is a problem (and a dead guitar) because if either pot comes loose, the circuit to the output jack is lost. Also - and this has happened to me - the plating on most control pots begins to flake eventually, especially if beat up by lock washers. Loose, flakey plating doesn't allow for a solid electrical connection, and again, dead guitar.

    You inadvertently hit a pet peeve of mine. Can ya tell? :lol:
     
  19. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    That's fine. I just wanted to make sure the real question wasn't getting lost in the noise. Your meter is your friend. Wait 'til you wire an S-1. Because they seem like they'd be symmetrical, but are not. That's why I started color-coding them in my diagrams.
     
  20. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    I got it, moosie. Now I see the obvious (unless you tell me I don't!).

    You'll see that I did the output jack grounds like you. I'll never do it the old way again, moosie, I swear it!

    IMG_1374.JPG

    neck pole side
    IMG_1375.JPG

    bridge pole side
    IMG_1376.JPG

    I see the commons now. There are four lugs on each side, and the switch stops at the third lug from the left on this picture. The last lug to the right of it is the common. It looks like a flat sheet of metal. The same on the other side, but the movement being in the opposite direction. So here I'm in the neck-only position (position 1) on the Tele. If I move the switch to the middle (and thus one to the left on this picture, it contacts the second lug on this side. And if you look over on the other side of the switch, you'll see it contacts the third lug over there at the same time. Thus: "both." Then if I move the switch once again, I'll be in the bridge-only position.

    IMG_1377.JPG
     
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