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How to tame 'fizzy' high-gain distortion mid-highs on Fender amps?

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by SonicLife, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. DaveKS

    DaveKS Friend of Leo's

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    Absolutely, those speakers are your worst enemy for the sound your wanting. WGS ET10 would be a good choice. Anything more Brit sounding with more mids will be better.

    But also agree, that's the wrong amp for the job too.
     
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  2. deadicated

    deadicated Tele-Holic

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    Tell you what I'll send you my Renegade and you send me your vibroluxe. We may both be happier.
     
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  3. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for that info.. Look, I can like with what I've got for the monent, I am looking at getting hemp cone speaker down the road, or swapping it for a Tweed.
     
  4. codamedia

    codamedia Poster Extraordinaire

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    ^^^ Start with this ...

    Unless I missed it, you are not specifying the era of your CVR? Is it the newer '68 model, or the older version? Fender calls both a "CVR" :confused:

    "How to tame 'fizzy' high-gain distortion mid-highs on Fender amps?"

    IMO, avoid the bright channel if it's an older CVR, or keep the bright cap OFF if it's a newer '68 model. Many don't like the sound of an overdrive when it is plugged into the "bright channel" of a Fender amp .... fizzy is often the description.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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  5. ellisvertellis

    ellisvertellis Tele-Holic

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    In my experience, the speaker is what supplies the fizz. Since I started using cab and head config, I tested quite a lot of speakers and there are speakers that do well with a cleanish amp and completely drop out/"fizz up" with a fuzz engaged.
    I would recommend a speaker swap, something more brittish sounding. Your Fender amp might like greenbacks IMO, because they offer fat low-mids (instead of the shrill upper mids that some Jensens produce) and handle distortion well.
    The WGS speaker I use for my Bassman is also very nice: It can handle the punk stuff and will produce a big sound with clear top end without fizzy edge. WGS has the 10" Green Beret (cfr greenback) and the ET10 (cfr ET65):

    https://wgs4.com/catalog/british-invasion

    Just my experience.

    And yes, bright switch OFF!! :)
     
  6. TheletterJ

    TheletterJ Tele-Afflicted

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    Seconded - that's exactly what I was going to say!
     
  7. ellisvertellis

    ellisvertellis Tele-Holic

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  8. KB11

    KB11 TDPRI Member

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    The eq will absolutely counteract the fender mid scoop.
    Marshall amps also have a mid scoop.
    The defizzerator is a soulution for a problem that doesn't exist, in my opinion.
    I believe you can tame the fizz with fender eq , turn off the presence, and the tone on the overdrive, without spending a dime.
     
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  9. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

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    Agree with this. I had a Red Fang in my 2x12 back when I was mostly doing marshall high gain stuff, and ended up taking it out pretty quickly because it had an unpleasant fizzy tone. If you read some descriptions of that alnico speaker you'll see the phrase "high end sparkle"... this seems to equate to "fizzy" under certain high gain uses. For low gain cleaner stuff, it sounded very articulate and sparkly.
    I put in a WGS greenback clone, and it solved the problem nicely.
     
  10. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    The EQ does it in an artificial, hollow-sounding manner. You can't boost something that's not there to start with.

    Marshalls are MUCH more mid-voiced than Fender BF/SF amps. It's the nature of a combination of the topology, the transformers, the amp voicing and Celestion speakers - especially in the closed-back cabinet models. Even though the original Marshalls were based on the tweed Bassman they had a much different tone with a different frequency curve. If you compare frequency analysis plots of a Twin Reverb and a 100-watt Plexi they're dramatically different.
     
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  11. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I believe most of the fizz in fizzy overdrive is caused by too much brightness which can be over emphasized with a blackface style mid scoop and as Silverface mentioned American voiced speakers. The excess high freqs are multiplied by harmonic and intermodulation distortion which can blend into a sour soup of muddy, fizzy highs.

    The earlier in the signal chain you reduce high freqs the more effect it will have on the meat and substance of the overdrive tone. Try trimming the fizzy highs with the guitar tone control--you can't get any earlier than that.

    Increasing the value of the tone stack's mid resistor or tone pot will reduce the mid scoop and put less emphasis on the highs. I like to increase the mid pot from the standard 10k up to 50k just so I can dial out some of that big mid scoop when needed.
     
  12. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    It's a Zinky circuit CVR, from 2011 Made in USA, to be precise with Jensen P10R greenbacks...
     
  13. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Take one out and put a Weber 10F150, a T if you want it tighter louder. RamRod or similar probably work too.
     
  14. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    OK..! Here is a sound sample of the 'fizzy' distorted sound I am trying to 'explain'...

    The Rig is Fender 2011 Zinky Vibrolux -> Durham Sexdrive-> Klinger 'omnidrive' -> 1995 US Telecaster.

     
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  15. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    I never liked the idea of rolling off the guitar's tone knob to reduce treble at the amp. I like to hit the amp with everything the guitar has and reducing treble at the amp itself. To my ears, it does sound different than reducing it at the guitar. Just my .02
     
  16. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    What does a Jensen 10R have to do with Greenbacks if I may ask?
     
  17. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    they're green colour?
     
  18. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    OK, I have mixed them. I have a pair or 90s P10Rs and mixed with a Weber 10F150T. I was using a Bandmaster Head and it sounded excellent. I think unless your are using 4 of those P10Rs or the Fender Eminence Blue Frame alnico 10s not so good pushed hard well past compression.

    You could dope them. I think you got cone cry going on there.
    You could make fleece washer and put them between the baffle and speaker. Let the hole in the fleece be smaller than the edge of the cone. That should calm the cone cry. It will also make a 95db sensitivity speaker be more like a 85db sensitivity speaker. So if you want to tame watts at the same time this may work for you. Cheaper than another 1 or 2 speakers. ;)
     
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  19. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    BTW, Celestion Greenbacks are a brit voiced 12" speaker. So your reference confused me a bit.
     
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  20. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for the tips? What is cone cry ? Are you suggesting putting fleecy material over the speaker?
     
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