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How to tame 'fizzy' high-gain distortion mid-highs on Fender amps?

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by SonicLife, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    Is this possible?

    Whilst I love my Fender CVR Vibrolux, and whilst it's regarded asa 'hot' amp, I am finding when I kick in high-gain OD or Distortion the top-and-midrange frequencies tends to fizz or fart out so a crunchy, punchy distortion starts to sound like a fizzy/boofy fuzz. For punk music this is not on!!

    A friend recommended I use a Rat, but that only slightly improves it..Are there any pedals that can attenuate that top-mid 'fizz' or is this just a limitation of the 'brighter' Fender amps?
     
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  2. mRtINY

    mRtINY Friend of Leo's

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    Does that amp have a Presence control?

    Other than that, roll off your guitar tone or get a high capacitance cable.

    Changing speakers might help....
     
  3. fatcat

    fatcat Friend of Leo's

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    Nobody get mad for my suggestion here, but

    1483707555098.jpg
     
  4. jvin248

    jvin248 Doctor of Teleocity

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    .

    Do you have one of those ubiquitous Boss orange DS-1 distortion pedals? Run that into the amp and try turning the amp's distortion and the pedal's distortion down low and play with the knobs to get the final distortion level you want. Don't put either above '5' on their knobs except for volume. The pedal 'tone' knob should be around 9-11 o'clock.

    I had an orange box that I considered doing some of the common Internet mods to it. Thought I better get a second one so I have a standard one to compare with. I'd heard of pedal stacking and when I got the second I did that and was surprised at the great tones I could get out of the pair. I found I had the first pedal at or near 'zero' gain and the second pedal maybe '4 or 5' gain and the tone was so much better than trying to max out a single pedal alone. Just kind of amazing.

    I still haven't done any mods to these pedals because of the success with stacking. However, I did watch for and eventually get a third orange box to be such a victim, hehehe.

    You could try stacking with other distortion pedals too and I've found some work better than others.


    .
     
  5. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    What speakers are in your amp?
     
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  6. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    Consider the tube in the V1 position. What is it? Thats the first stage those boxes are hitting and chances are pretty good thats where it's happening. try some other tubes. JJ's are darker sounding. Not my fav but then i don't have that issue. Might even try a different 12A*** type like a TT or U7 or a 5751 in V1.
     
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  7. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    NOPE. Just Volume Treble Bass
     
  8. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    My speakers are Jensen P10R's x2
     
  9. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I have liked the Jensens for years, but recently become disillusioned. I recently replaced two of the P10Rs in my '59 Bassman RI with two Eminence 1028ALKs and seen the highs transformed.

    I do still have a C10R and P10R in my '63 Vibroverb RI (very similar to your CVR). That combo is anything but brittle. In fact, I've been thinking about trying something different in there to give it a little more liveliness. Although, it may also be due for a recap.

    But, before going the full speaker route.... This is gonna sound funny in an amp forum.... Try new strings, different strings, different metals, etc. If you're using stainless, go nickel. Try a different brand, or even a different construction type, like flats or burnished or half rounds or whatever. Even the unwrapped strings are different brand to brand and even with brands different models, etc.

    I have been struggling with one of my Strats recently. I had strings on it I really liked, but I can't remember which ones they were! Other guitars sound fine, but this one gets kinda fizzy/brittle sounding on the high notes. I need to check it with the new speakers, though. Haven't had the opportunity to try that combo yet.
     
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  10. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    The issue is when I kick in boost+overdrive, the particular pedal I have become 'muff like' but the problem isn't much better with a muff.. I also have a Cornish G2 clone, that improved a little bitt, but I am after a punchy/punky Steve Jones type sound. Apparently I should be stacking wioth a Tubescreamer TS9, they seem to be the only pedal that helps a Fender amp go 'Marshall-esque'?
     
  11. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

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    I think if you hit almost any amp too hard going into the preamp it's going to sound a bit fizzy. Back off on the gains, both on the pedal and the amp. Sometimes less sounds bigger in the mix. There may be a combination of pedal gain and amp gain that sounds better, and then fine tune with guitar volume and tone.
     
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  12. mexicanyella

    mexicanyella Friend of Leo's

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    Given that your mid level is fixed, have you tried backing off the bass and treble and turning up the volume to compensate? Maybe it's just a matter of shifting the emphasis away from highs and scooped-ness and toward a darker, middier sound.
     
  13. jaybones

    jaybones Friend of Leo's

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    Oh, anti fizz. :lol:
     
  14. gtrjunior

    gtrjunior Tele-Holic

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    I'm thinking a speaker swap might be the answer
     
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  15. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Speaker w/o aluminum dustcap


    turn the treb and bass down, to get more perceived mids.


    If you got nice boxes like a Cornish and not getting good tones, stop changing the pedals. It's very likely the amp. I find Chinese tubes are good for high gain, but tend to be more fizzy. Tung sol is bright/detailed, but doesn't have the 'fizz' to my ear.
    JJ's IMO are darker and boomy, but they often retain the 'fizz' quality, just with a darker tone, IME.

    I also find open backs to generally be more fizz prone and looser woofier in the lows, than closed cabs. For 'punch' I always will recommend a closed or ported cab because of the (superior) low end response compared to open back.
     
  16. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Far from it! I don't think a Tubescreamer really does the Marshall thing.

    There IS a long list of pedals that is aimed at that tone specifically. The Rat is the first answer you get a lot around here. I doubted them until I bought a clone (a Mooer Black Secret) a few years ago. Great circuit! But, You already got that piece of advice! LOL I would consider mine fuzzy, not fizzy. Mine is not fizzy by any stretch of the imagination.

    There is a big long list of 'Marshall voiced' pedals. Everything from amp simulation pedals to just distortion and overdrives.

    I have a few Fender amps and even they behave differently when hit with certain pedals. Unfortunately, it might take some experimenting and some swapping things in and out to find the right combo.
     
  17. SonicLife

    SonicLife TDPRI Member

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    Yeah i have a Mooer Black Secret, awesome pedal. The guy who built my pedal, the Klinger 'omnidrive' has given me some tips, i will try when we do overdubs. Thanks for the tips! FYI I have all Russian Sung Tol tubes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
  18. KB11

    KB11 TDPRI Member

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    Those Jensons are super bright. However every fuzz or overdrive I've ever seen has a tone control, turn it down. End of fizz.
     
  19. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    Ding!

    Alnico speakers with high-gain distortion very often sound harsh - and those (I assume they are the so-called "reissues") are, in my experience, absolutely not for high-gain applications.

    Smoother ceramic speakers voiced for more mids - i.e. Celestion types - and properly broken-in, will take that harsh top off enough that you should be able to work with the tone controls - to a point.

    But that amp, even though it has medium-high gain (more than most Fender amps) is still voiced with a big mid-scoop. The kind of high-gain sound it seems you're after may require amp mods to revoice it more along the line of the Marshall/Vox mid-emphasized sound. An EQ just can't make up for a significant mid-scoop.
     
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  20. brbadg

    brbadg Tele-Afflicted

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    I agree with the speaker change ,but I also don't think of a vibrolux as a ''punk'' amp.
     
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