1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

How to play like this? I don't know, can it be taught?

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by ASATKat, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,403
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Location:
    IL, USA
    There are plenty of Lage transcriptions out there for purchase. It’s fun stuff to try.
     
  2. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    3,181
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Not sure why someone would want to "play like someone else" in a copying sort of way. There are a lot of genius players. The real gift exists with those who are so creative that their playing isn't like someone else's (as in, they didn't learn to play just like someone else) but in such a way that other people find appealing. Because there are a lot of undisciplined creative players who make the musical version of a railroad track varying in width with missing sections.
     
  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    25,177
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Yeah that's fair but there are artists who copped past artists work in their sophomore years then made something new with those building blocks plus their own material.
    Then there are some artists that really stuck with their elders material.

    I'm most inclined to try to cop an esthetic, but I'm also a bit lazy and uninterested in reproducing past works.

    Then there's the fact that my fourth fretting finger got partly chopped off as a kid so I have only three fretting fingers, which forces me to develop alternate techniques and phrasing tools.
     
  4. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    Julian started playing at 5. At age 8 he started taking lessons from Randy Vincent, an amazing player in my area.

    Randy says he didn't really teach Julian much, their relationship was more let's work as equals, he's talking about an 8 yr old. Randy also took Julian to Tuck Andress and Pat Metheny for 'tips ', but not lessons. Randy also hooked Julian up with Bruce Forman. And at 10 Julian met one of his greatest influences, Jim Hall. They remained good friends till Jim died. This is when Julian met Nels Cline who lived around the corner from Hall. Also Julian met David Grisman at 10 and through that Jules met Martin Taylor and Martin took him on tour.

    At 12 years old Julian started playing with Gary Burton in his Generations band.

    Julian at 17 got a free pass to go to Berklee but quit because he knew more than the teachers. Berklee quickly went after Jules and told him he could study with anyone in the school for free, in exchange for getting to use his name. So Julian studied with Mick Goodrick and Tim Miller for a while, like around a year. After that Julian decided to start his pro carreer. Some smart people encouraged him to wait when he was a kid, good call imo.

    I had the opportunity to hire both Julian and Steve Kimock to do a clinic at the hogh school I tutored at, for $100 each. They did it because I was friends with both, mostly Kimock. I'm still in good standings with them but never see them.
    Julian pulled a Fender Twin out of the back area of his 1978 Porsche 911. That right there was pretty impressive, no way could I do that without pulling a muscle.
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  5. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    Here is Julian and Martin Taylor who happened to bump into each other at a studio in Napa. No rehearsal,,,

    After playing Martin sort of interviews Julian and they talk about David Grisman, where they met and how Julian blew Martin's mind by being so young. Good interview.

     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
    JustABluesGuy likes this.
  6. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    This is an excellent clinic where he talks about what he thinks when playing, and even better topics, more of his history too.
     
    Cheshiergrin and boop like this.
  7. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    My comment was more tongue in cheek than reality.
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  8. fenderchamp

    fenderchamp Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    2,327
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Location:
    omaha
    You probably would want to start with learning the chords, or before that even learn to hear the changes when listening to the track. You can probably find a chart w/o too much trouble, and follow along for a while. eventually you should be able to hear the changes. After that it get's much worse, but without that, you have no chance at all.

    I'm no jazz player, but the thing about jazz, I think, is you don't really need or even want to learn exactly what a given player is playing, but you need to learn what they are doing, which is really much more difficult, i.e. to learn to play like that, you would have to learn how to play jazz, which is a whole lot of work.

    Technique, ear training, jazz harmony practice practice practice .... repeat repeat repeat
     
    ASATKat likes this.
  9. the embezzler

    the embezzler Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    821
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    The tune is a Jarrett compostion called The Windup.
    A lot of the trio stuff he does seems to involve extended romps over a vamp of one chord and he plays lots of outside stuff. He also uses hybrid right hand for quite a few things.
    His style is a real fusion of all the different styles he's immeresed himself in - classical, bluegrass, jazz, brazilian, raucous free playing. He's pretty fearless and sometimes doesn't pull stuff off but that's what makes him so fun to listen to.
     
    boneyguy and klasaine like this.
  10. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    Thanks so much, I knew there was Jarrett somewhere lol.

     
  11. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    3,181
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Unfortunately, if he plays long enough and gets popular enough, someone will codify everything he does!

    And then he'll think "ghee, that makes everything seem so robotic"!

    My BIL can do that with just about everything I play (masters in music, does a lot of performing). "OH, what you're doing is ___ and then ____, and adding ____".


    Well, ghee - you make it sound like a phone app could've come up with it. I thought it was kind of musical and a little more romantic than that!!

    (all of my childhood heroes that i no longer really listen to - steve vai, yngwie, etc - times change and so does our taste in music I guess. ...i wouldn't have ever guessed that someone would go to the trouble of mapping out every single thing they do, but there's folks on youtube who seem to have done just that. When someone copies steve vai, I kind of think of it like..."i'm already kind of worn out on steve's style and his personal touch, but hearing someone else copy him note for note and nuance for nuance makes me thing....buddy, you should've established your own style - it was only good when steve did it". )

    Julian is a gifted player, but nothing he plays makes me want to hear said piece a second time. Lots of guys think that about vai, or chet, or whoever, and I'm totally cool with that.

    I feel sort of the same way about jazz pianists who are out there further than the art tatums of the world, or metal shredders now who actually have thoughtful stuff if you slow it down. Fatiguing, and I feel like someone drove around in a car really fast but never left their location.
     
  12. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    I would like to hear Julian play with the popular geniuses like Sco or Rosenwinkle, and of course all the others. Sco stands out. It was great to hear Julian play with Bill Frisell,,, but,,,
    It's my opinion Julian played a bit too much, too virtuoso at moments. But there was also wonderful communication. Julian did goose Friz and so Friz played lots more notes linearly, even to the point of fast, less Frisellian more Hall or even Pass like. Those are just rough guesses. I do hear Hall though. What do you think?

     
  13. stantheman

    stantheman Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    66
    Posts:
    11,604
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Location:
    White Mountains
    I've been told I should listen to Ornette Coleman but I'm pretty set in my ways at this age. I was into Bird for a long time if that counts for anything, but when I got into Miles Davis and John Coltrane and the people that they influenced that's kinda been it for me. I know Keith Jarrett was with Miles for a time but I'm more of a Red Garland, Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock follower.

    There's only so much Music that one's ears can take in and well being the slowest of learners...
     
  14. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    Really? Aw, come on. I'm 65 ,I've been playing since I was 10. In 82 I put myself in music college for around 5 years. After school was done with is when my most serious study took place, a divorce, a kid, my teaching,,, I chilled out and put pencil to paper and started working on what I've absorbed into me as a player. Hundreds of pieces of paper on all the interesting topics I heard about. Around '90 I started buying guitar books, my favorite book store hands down was Guitar Solo in San Francisco. These guys specialized in all current guitar books, if they were good enough, go somewhere else for Paul Simon, this store was almost like the library for GIT. Back then GIT was doing real well and there was a real market for cutting edge modern guitar books, if the book said "concept" it would sell out.

    That was in the 90s, now it's '19. I still have the two hundred books I bought, don't forget I was a single dad of a toodler, then young boy, etc. I just practiced the books and used paper to connect to what I already knew, all while my son grew up behind a computer.

    At 65 I've slowed down because few rocks I've left unturned. I now have to a moderate degree, inserted a lot of these studies into my playing, so I'm recording lots more, time to make music.

    This activity will keep my brain more healthy, I suggest you do the same, if you want to, and it sounds like you want to, so,,,
     
  15. NashvilleDeluxe

    NashvilleDeluxe Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,020
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    West Island, Quebec
    I'm not smart enough to appreciate jazz. To me, it sounds like a powerful, sophisticate jet aircraft that just taxis around, but never takes off.
     
  16. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    It does take an inderstanding of what they doing in the heat of playing to perhaps form an appreciation of the scrambled eggs they're playing.

    It be like me watching my son play Warcraft or ???,,, I have no idea of the purpose and goal, to me it would look like he's doing weird random things, just like people that don't understand the "game" involved in "listening" to jazz. Because it is just a game. And the player is also a listener like the audience listener.

    This game is "feeling" where one is. And the tension/release of a phrase. The game is also keeping track of "root movement" related to the harmony of the progression, and "going out of key" is also a skill beyond scales, moving into chromaticism. No doubt Julian is playing all twelve tones using chromaticism all the time in this solo.
    So this is far beyond just chords and scales.
     
  17. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    25,177
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Haha I was a sucker for the troll...

    I've recently been calling "troll!" too often round here and am trying to be more polite.
     
  18. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    Who teaches a 5 year old to "hear" with the skill of a master?

    I simply believe people are fortunate to be born with all things in place ready to go, the nervous system is in place, the cognitive abilities are in place, just prime for imagination.
     
  19. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,112
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    I call it trying to be funny.
     
  20. duzie

    duzie Tele-Holic

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    510
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Location:
    Nw New Jersey
    Now that’s funny !
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.