How to pick a 1st Les Paul?
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gimmeatele
Friend of Leo's
Yep, Thomman have really upped their game on these.
MelodicBend
Tele-Meister
I am extremely disenchanted with Gibson as a company but that is a whole other long and tedious discussion.
I also dream of owning and playing some Les Paul models but feel like the 50's design cannot be improved upon. Everything they offer otherwise has gimmicky features or useless selling and marketing points that don't stand the test of time. An argument can be made for 60's (slimmer necks, maybe some weight relief, other differencs) models but I'm not even going to go there. I would shop for a nice P90 goldtop or a 50's neck sunburst. Gibson reissues are usually extremely high quality and authentic to this era.
Moral of the story is go big or don't bother. Gibson simply doesn't care about overall quality of their products for the MSRP that they demand. Gibson flaws are very real and impossible to overlook. Wind a string wrong and they're impossible to tune. Look at a headstock sideways and they snap off. Pick a bad production year and their finish is either too faded, too sticky, or so glossy that you can make contact with the top without a squeak effect.
You can find something playable and all around fun in a Tribute or a fluffed model for the Les Paul experience, but you'll miss out on what the overall guitar is supposed to be. If this means nothing to you, an old Korean made Epiphone will be at least twice the guitar as a current series for the price of a Squier. Epiphone doesn't, won't, and can't make anything like the Samick factory circa 90's to 20xx years yet they flood the market today with mediocre guitars at ever increasing prices! A little more money will get you a beautiful American made glossy Studio which is pretty much all you need for tone, looks, and playability. A faded, worn, or ither auxiliary model Studio will only piss you off. Heed my warning.
Other than a Standard, Classic, or Traditional that you fall in love with and decide to shell out the money for, I'll suggest a Slash. All of his signature models are based on actual guitars that he owns including an authentic '59 that is known to Burst historians to be the first Standard. The necks, colors, pickups, fretwork, and final finish are unbelievable on a Slash model. They are everything a Gibson is supposed to be. Like I said, go big. If I step back into the Gibson ecosystem, I'm buying a Slash.
Final thought: I know the longing for a curvy, humbucking, bursty, single cut as much as anyone. You can fulfill that desire with a PRS, Goldin, or something else. The blunt truth is there are other companies that can produce such guitars cheaper and even better (subjectively speaking) than Gibson. Don't hold yourself back.
Good luck.
I also dream of owning and playing some Les Paul models but feel like the 50's design cannot be improved upon. Everything they offer otherwise has gimmicky features or useless selling and marketing points that don't stand the test of time. An argument can be made for 60's (slimmer necks, maybe some weight relief, other differencs) models but I'm not even going to go there. I would shop for a nice P90 goldtop or a 50's neck sunburst. Gibson reissues are usually extremely high quality and authentic to this era.
Moral of the story is go big or don't bother. Gibson simply doesn't care about overall quality of their products for the MSRP that they demand. Gibson flaws are very real and impossible to overlook. Wind a string wrong and they're impossible to tune. Look at a headstock sideways and they snap off. Pick a bad production year and their finish is either too faded, too sticky, or so glossy that you can make contact with the top without a squeak effect.
You can find something playable and all around fun in a Tribute or a fluffed model for the Les Paul experience, but you'll miss out on what the overall guitar is supposed to be. If this means nothing to you, an old Korean made Epiphone will be at least twice the guitar as a current series for the price of a Squier. Epiphone doesn't, won't, and can't make anything like the Samick factory circa 90's to 20xx years yet they flood the market today with mediocre guitars at ever increasing prices! A little more money will get you a beautiful American made glossy Studio which is pretty much all you need for tone, looks, and playability. A faded, worn, or ither auxiliary model Studio will only piss you off. Heed my warning.
Other than a Standard, Classic, or Traditional that you fall in love with and decide to shell out the money for, I'll suggest a Slash. All of his signature models are based on actual guitars that he owns including an authentic '59 that is known to Burst historians to be the first Standard. The necks, colors, pickups, fretwork, and final finish are unbelievable on a Slash model. They are everything a Gibson is supposed to be. Like I said, go big. If I step back into the Gibson ecosystem, I'm buying a Slash.
Final thought: I know the longing for a curvy, humbucking, bursty, single cut as much as anyone. You can fulfill that desire with a PRS, Goldin, or something else. The blunt truth is there are other companies that can produce such guitars cheaper and even better (subjectively speaking) than Gibson. Don't hold yourself back.
Good luck.
Look into a used Eastman.
1 21 gigawatts
Tele-Afflicted
Take a look at the Gibson Demo Shop, if you don't mind a blemish or two for a good discount. They add more guitars every Tuesday.
For me, the sweet spot in price-value is the Tribute models.
For me, the sweet spot in price-value is the Tribute models.
dspellman1
Tele-Meister
I have a pretty good stack of Gibsons, but at this point in time, I'd suggest that there's absolutely no point in paying for the logo if you're looking for a Les Paul style guitar. I've certainly spent some bucks on them, as evidenced by the fact that I prefer them with ebony fretboards, real MOP inlays and binding everywhere. My first guitar was a Gibson (still have it).
Over the years, I've found other solid body guitars that match up and exceed Gibson's LP. An '82 Ibanez AR-300, a same-year Yamaha SG2000, a Nik Huber single cut, a few Moonstones, etc. About 15 years ago, a friend wandered into the studio with an Agile AL3000. Real ebony fretboard, abalone inlays (!), multi-layer binding on headstock and body, single binding on the fretboard, hand-filed jumbo frets, great neck, a one-piece mahogany neck, a two-piece mahogany body with a maple cap. And I ended up uttering the phrase that a lot of folks have since then: "You paid WHAT for this guitar?" I think the bill was around $375, with case, shipped to his door. It really was a good piece. Put together by World Music in South Korea, it came from a guy who'd shuttered his brick and mortar store and who was importing and dealing these guitars via a shabby website from a couple of tin buildings in New Hampshire. His return policy ("just send it back") was generous and the returns went up on the site as "B Stocks" and were sometimes gone literally within minutes of posting. Surprisingly, few of them were ever returned.
I had a project that required a "Gibson Les Paul -- none of those crappy copies" per the bandleader, so I ordered an Axcess Custom (yeah, a Floyd on an LP. Heresy!), and since the job required about $1500 worth of modifications (sustainers, etc.), I ordered an Agile as both a stalking horse for the mods and as a backup. Both ended up with exactly the same pickups and other gear; pretty much only the wood remained. In the end, the Agile was selected as the #1 for the job, with the Gibson as backup. The Agile was a custom creation, honestly, that had a 16" radius fretboard, a 1 3/4" nut width, neck-through construction and a full-thickness solid body (the Axcess was chambered and slightly thinner-bodied). The Axcess was $4K at the time. It was black because Gibson wanted an additional $1760 for a fancy flamed burst top and a 5-7 month lead time. The Agile had the fancy flamed burst top (I ordered "tight flame" and got it!) and the guitar, with case, delivered to the house from flippin' Korea, was $1160 total. Took 3 months.
At this point, I have a total of 13 Agiles, picked up here and there, mostly used.
Here's what I've found. If you run into a guitar with any kind of fretboard issue, take it to your handy tech and get the frets superglued and PLEK'd and have the guy do a great setup on it. In every single case, the result has been an awesome playing guitar. The most recent has been a black AL-3100 Floyd that I picked up from a nice pastor for $200 who felt it was a bit too "black" for his Praise and Worship group. It was otherwise pristine. Two of them are AL2000Floyds, which have a surprising 24-fret neck with a "tilted" neck heel that works almost as well as the Axcess sculpted neck heel. Amazing upper fret access (the 24th fret is where the 22nd fret would normally be). One is box stock (including cheap Floyd), the other has a Ferdinand Sustainer and a DiMarzio Super Distortion in the bridge position. Both have 9's on them, both can be nearly decked, and both play as well as anything on the market (and yes, both have been PLEK'd).
I have, occasionally, swapped out pickups, but rarely, and never because the OEMs sounded bad. I have P-Rails in one guitar. I have a set of Suhr Doug Aldrich pickups in another. I received an Agile AD2300 (think '59 Gibson LP Junior DC) for $130 that had a pair of hand-wound Mike Reilander P90's aboard. Another LP style has Kinman Noiseless P90s. The project guitar mentioned above has a hot (9.2Khom) Gibson '57 in the bridge position and a DiMarzio Fast Track II alongside the Sustainer driver in the neck position. This is the same setup Neal Schon was using in his personal and recording guitars at the time (still is, come to think of it).
No one has ever said any of these sounded like anything but a Gibson Les Paul. Go figure. Friend of mine owns an original '59 Gibson LP Special (the inspiration for the AD2300) with P90's -- a $5K guitar. He thinks my little $130 marvel sounds as good and plays better than his.
dspellman1
Tele-Meister
Nah. "Vaguely" is what most of the folks in this thread know.
I've played over 30 different serial numbers of original '59 burst over the last couple of decades (not tough to do when you live in LA) and several dead-nuts copies. Those guitars may have distantly inspired current players, but they don't sound like current Gibsons.Period.
For starters, all of them had the same pickup in both neck and bridge positions. Today's guitars have a hotter pickup in the bridge compared to the neck position, because manufacturers decided that this balanced volume between the two positions better. And for most of current guitars, there are more differences between the pickups than there were even in imprecise '59 manufacturing.
dspellman1
Tele-Meister
I don't own one, but it seems to me that an Epiphone '59 Les Paul Standard will get you there.
Given that you don't want to baby them, find a really good used one and then spend the money for a fret superglue and PLEK setup. That will bring you pretty close to $1000 and you'll have a better playing guitar than most of the Gibson Standards hanging on your local GC.
backalleyblues
Friend of Leo's
As many others have said, a Tribute will get you there without breaking the bank, and possibly your back.
I've got a 2017 Tribute Gold Top (bought new from Sweetwater) weighs in at 8lb 8oz-I can live with that weight! Nice resonance to it, and the 60's neck will feel better to a Strat player than a 50s (unless you like baseball bats!). The pickups on mine are 490r/490t and sound just fine to me. I installed a LP control board for the pickup switching, Kluson Revolution tuners and a few personal touches. It's a workhorse guitar, and gets played on gigs often, and really sounds and plays like a Les Paul. I had an Epiphone LP custom, was a nice guitar, but it wasn't quite THERE, and I'm a sucker for a black Custom.
Prepare yourself for a guitar safari, and enjoy the hunt!!
I've got a 2017 Tribute Gold Top (bought new from Sweetwater) weighs in at 8lb 8oz-I can live with that weight! Nice resonance to it, and the 60's neck will feel better to a Strat player than a 50s (unless you like baseball bats!). The pickups on mine are 490r/490t and sound just fine to me. I installed a LP control board for the pickup switching, Kluson Revolution tuners and a few personal touches. It's a workhorse guitar, and gets played on gigs often, and really sounds and plays like a Les Paul. I had an Epiphone LP custom, was a nice guitar, but it wasn't quite THERE, and I'm a sucker for a black Custom.
Prepare yourself for a guitar safari, and enjoy the hunt!!
A particular model of Studio for you to consider could be the Vintage Mahogany. These were made in the 2007 range. Probably the most no-frills Les Paul but it does all the important stuff. You can find them on Reverb in the $800 range every day.
Here's mine:
Here's mine:
G Stone496
Tele-Holic
No laminates, no veneers, no Indian laurel fretboards! Get a Gibson.
Annies Dad
TDPRI Member
One thing I try on an LP is 3rds power chords. Up and down the neck. Major and minor. A good one can do this effortlessly with seemingly perfect intonation and a strident solid feel. For some reason I relate it to a dirt bike. On a 125 you can get bumped around a bit. On a 500 it swallows the whoops.
They sound and feel different acoustically than a Fender. Maybe more quiet. I think the maple has a tight spanky feel and the mahogany adds the beef.
Tom Bukovac had a video recently on how to pick a good one. One thing he said was to do a high bend and hold it. Some sustain good and some don't.
They sound and feel different acoustically than a Fender. Maybe more quiet. I think the maple has a tight spanky feel and the mahogany adds the beef.
Tom Bukovac had a video recently on how to pick a good one. One thing he said was to do a high bend and hold it. Some sustain good and some don't.
Happy Enchilada
Poster Extraordinaire
Want a great LP style guitar?
With a ton of "custom" touches right out of the box?
That sells for under $500 new?
Check out AGILE.
I have two.
One is a double cutaway LP style with Tonerider Alnico 4s.
Other is singlecut with Lollar P90s.
Both play superbly well and sound great.
Agiles are manufactured for Rondo Music, a family music store in New Hampshire.
They are made in Korea to exacting standards (which is why they're so affordable).
Thich maple cap.
Ebony fingerboard.
Full-size pots and decent switch and jack. Wiring is neat and clean.
Fit and finish is amazing. Frets are "like buttah."
Tusq nut. If you get a 3000-series, it has Tusq bridge saddles too.
Grover tuners that work fine.
Heck, you may even dig the factory pickups.
I did a lot of research before I bought the first one.
There is a dizzying array of LP copies out there.
These are consistent and punch above their price. Way above.
With a ton of "custom" touches right out of the box?
That sells for under $500 new?
Check out AGILE.
I have two.
One is a double cutaway LP style with Tonerider Alnico 4s.
Other is singlecut with Lollar P90s.
Both play superbly well and sound great.
Agiles are manufactured for Rondo Music, a family music store in New Hampshire.
They are made in Korea to exacting standards (which is why they're so affordable).
Thich maple cap.
Ebony fingerboard.
Full-size pots and decent switch and jack. Wiring is neat and clean.
Fit and finish is amazing. Frets are "like buttah."
Tusq nut. If you get a 3000-series, it has Tusq bridge saddles too.
Grover tuners that work fine.
Heck, you may even dig the factory pickups.
I did a lot of research before I bought the first one.
There is a dizzying array of LP copies out there.
These are consistent and punch above their price. Way above.
There are lots of very good copies out there. I had a Korean Dillion LP. The stock pickups were nothing to get excited about but the rest of the guitar was really good. I put a set of Rio Grande Texas/BBQ humbuckers in it and that guitar could hold its own against most Gibsons.
OTOH I once had a step-daughter who couldn't have any shoes that didn't have the "correct swish" or jeans that didn't have a celebrity label. Money was tight and I resented her and her mother's extravagance. I moved away about a year later and never talked with either of them again. Were Nike shoes and Calvin Klein jeans any better - no, but peer pressure in middle school is something that is very real.
OTOH I once had a step-daughter who couldn't have any shoes that didn't have the "correct swish" or jeans that didn't have a celebrity label. Money was tight and I resented her and her mother's extravagance. I moved away about a year later and never talked with either of them again. Were Nike shoes and Calvin Klein jeans any better - no, but peer pressure in middle school is something that is very real.
Play before you buy, if you can.
I add the qualifier because when I bought my first LP after not owning one for about 20 years, I found an '82 Standard on Reverb that was selling for a stupidly low price and I took a shot, figuring I could flip it for at least what I paid if it was a dog. Turned out to be an excellent guitar.
The next two - an '81 Custom and a '21 R8 - got played in person. I was looking at a 2015 Custom, but a friend I was with at Norm's said 'You don't want that one - you want this one.' He was right.
And the R8 (again, from Norm's) sold itself. I literally gasped when they cracked open the case. But playing it for a few minutes sealed the deal.
Play as many as you can find. When you find yours, you'll know it.
And if you want a Les Paul, get a Gibson. Ain't nothin' like the real thing. Good luck.
- D
I add the qualifier because when I bought my first LP after not owning one for about 20 years, I found an '82 Standard on Reverb that was selling for a stupidly low price and I took a shot, figuring I could flip it for at least what I paid if it was a dog. Turned out to be an excellent guitar.
The next two - an '81 Custom and a '21 R8 - got played in person. I was looking at a 2015 Custom, but a friend I was with at Norm's said 'You don't want that one - you want this one.' He was right.
And the R8 (again, from Norm's) sold itself. I literally gasped when they cracked open the case. But playing it for a few minutes sealed the deal.
Play as many as you can find. When you find yours, you'll know it.
And if you want a Les Paul, get a Gibson. Ain't nothin' like the real thing. Good luck.
- D
DHart
Poster Extraordinaire
I've had five Gibson Les Pauls over the years, Standards, Traditional, and a Studio. They were all really nice guitars, but as I play sitting most of the time, I just gravitated to my Fenders and sold the Lesters, one by one. Too heavy, too butt heavy, too unbalanced to enjoy playing sitting down.
Recently I went shopping for another Les Paul, as I missed having one. What I found blew me away. 8 lbs on the button, perfectly balanced playing sitting, gorgeous EBONY fretboard, flawless fit and finish from head to butt, Locking Grover Rotomatic tuners, wonderful asymmetrical neck with heel carve, sounded great, and played perfectly fresh out of the box right on the Guitar Center showroom floor.
I didn't need to give it even a second thought. I knew what I had in my hands. SOLD.
Even though it sounded great, I expected that I'd want to replace the electronics and pickups because I'm not into the split-coil and out-of phase features and I love the tone of Dimarzio PAF Master pickups (have them in several of my other guitars). Price was $700, but with trade in, GC gives a 10% discount on the purchase, bringing it to $630. My upgrades of pickups and electronics was $250, so all in at $880.
And after owning so many wonderful Gibson Les Pauls, I found this high-end Epiphone model to be every bit as satisfying to play and sounds every bit as good as any of my 5 Gibson Les Pauls and, I'm sure, the $3000 Gibson version Les Paul Modern.
Epiphone Les Paul Modern. As I bought it right out of the box:
As it is now with PAF Master pickups, CTS pots, Switchcraft switch and output jack, a black poker chip, and black speed knobs!
I could not be happier with this Les Paul! Great list of specs and features. Exquisite build quality. The $880 price with the upgrades was so well worth it to me, but most players would likely be just as happy with the stock guitar and special switching features. (I often mod my guitars to personalize them exactly as I want them to be.) I like this LP so much, I'm actually considering buying the sparkling burgundy version of the same guitar, as well, because I love that color so much.
Did I mention EBONY fretboard and Grover Rotomatic locking tuners? Wow. Anyway... nuff said.
Go to YouTube and do a search on these: Epiphone Les Paul Modern
www.sweetwater.com
Recently I went shopping for another Les Paul, as I missed having one. What I found blew me away. 8 lbs on the button, perfectly balanced playing sitting, gorgeous EBONY fretboard, flawless fit and finish from head to butt, Locking Grover Rotomatic tuners, wonderful asymmetrical neck with heel carve, sounded great, and played perfectly fresh out of the box right on the Guitar Center showroom floor.
I didn't need to give it even a second thought. I knew what I had in my hands. SOLD.
Even though it sounded great, I expected that I'd want to replace the electronics and pickups because I'm not into the split-coil and out-of phase features and I love the tone of Dimarzio PAF Master pickups (have them in several of my other guitars). Price was $700, but with trade in, GC gives a 10% discount on the purchase, bringing it to $630. My upgrades of pickups and electronics was $250, so all in at $880.
And after owning so many wonderful Gibson Les Pauls, I found this high-end Epiphone model to be every bit as satisfying to play and sounds every bit as good as any of my 5 Gibson Les Pauls and, I'm sure, the $3000 Gibson version Les Paul Modern.
Epiphone Les Paul Modern. As I bought it right out of the box:
As it is now with PAF Master pickups, CTS pots, Switchcraft switch and output jack, a black poker chip, and black speed knobs!
I could not be happier with this Les Paul! Great list of specs and features. Exquisite build quality. The $880 price with the upgrades was so well worth it to me, but most players would likely be just as happy with the stock guitar and special switching features. (I often mod my guitars to personalize them exactly as I want them to be.) I like this LP so much, I'm actually considering buying the sparkling burgundy version of the same guitar, as well, because I love that color so much.
Did I mention EBONY fretboard and Grover Rotomatic locking tuners? Wow. Anyway... nuff said.
Go to YouTube and do a search on these: Epiphone Les Paul Modern
Epiphone Les Paul Modern Electric Guitar - Sparkling Burgundy
Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body, Maple Top, Mahogany Neck, Ebony Fingerboard, and 2 Humbucking Pickups - Sparkling Burgundy
www.sweetwater.com
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Sax-son
Friend of Leo's
I never actually owned a Gibson Les Paul until I pulled the trigger on a 60s Burbon Burst Standard a few years ago (I had to finance it). Its a heavy guitar but plays and sounds wonderful. It's perhaps the only guitar I own where I didn't have to tweak one thing on it. It was expensive but worth every penny to me. When HJ was the CEO, he had such a chaotic catalog of LPs, that I was afraid to buy one. I am glad I waited until I did.
I've owned a Standard, a Classic, and countless Studios. They all were awesome guitars. A used Studio could be a good deal--basically a Gibson LP Standard without the body or fretboard binding. But that fretboard binding on the Standard..... with the nibs covering the edges of the frets... so smoove.
The Gibson Les Paul is an iconic instrument. Every guitarist should own one at some point.
The Gibson Les Paul is an iconic instrument. Every guitarist should own one at some point.
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