How Tight Truss Rod Should Be

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by RoCkstAr256, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    So far guys, neck straightened a little bit more, so i dont have banana bow like it used to be. Maybe its hard to turn but it gives effects :)
     
  2. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Are you trying to reduce back bow? ie, the strings are too low in the centre of the neck?
    If so you want to loosen the truss rod and let the string tension pull the neck level or create some relief. If you want to reduce the relief then you tighten the truss rod to counteract the strings tension.
     
  3. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    Nah, other way around mate , front bow was too much. its okay now.
     
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  4. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    Fender replied, They say that New line of their guitars have much tight truss rod to keep better stability
     
  5. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    Last question i forgot. Should i loose truss rod slighlty beofre i tighten it ?
     
  6. JIMMY JAZZMAN

    JIMMY JAZZMAN TDPRI Member

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    Very nice thread. Before any adjustment (on Fenders) make sure your neck screws are relatively tight.
    If they are loose, you may be over adjusting because of the loose screws. Check there first.
     
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  7. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    It wont hurt seeing as you say yours is very stiff. It's ok if it feels hard to turn but if the resistance is too much I would stop and maybe try to lube it. You cant torque down on them like you can on a machine bolt etc. When I have encountered a rod that's quite hard to turn I go slowly with small turns and use gut feeling on how much load I can put on it without breaking it. If you are trying to make extreme adjustment I would do it in small amounts over two days so the neck has a little time to settle in.
     
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  8. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    Truss rod nut can be different? First photo Red Standard Mim Tele
    Truss rod with rings? Heres my 2,3,4 photos of Tidepool Blue Player Tele MiM

    Truss rod nut has some rings around ?
    Sorry for weird quetsion

    Standard mim Red tele , bottomtruss rod nut seems flat

    [​IMG]
    Player Telecaster Blue , Bottom of the nut like 6 "rings" ? Is ot okay?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Do i overreact? Is it ok? Both truuss rod works expect blue one is hard to turn but not stiff
     
  9. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    I have done more quality photos
     
  10. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    You're worrying over things that don't matter. The two nuts were probably made slightly differently, maybe by different suppliers. Provided you use the correct sized key it doesn't matter at all.
     
  11. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    Thanks mate i sometimes overreact ;)
     
  12. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Well, from a guitar techs perspective, if a Fender neck has a lot of bow and the truss rod feels very tight, I think there is something wrong or at least not very right with the neck.
    Fender necks do not require much wrench force to tighten enough to straighten a healthy neck.

    OTOH there are plenty of not-very-healthy necks.

    So if a lot of force is required to turn the nut when the neck is up bowed or has too much relief, I suspect the neck is naturally very warped in the too much relief direction.
    Or the threads are dry and a little rusty.
    Or a prior owner had to over tighten to correct the extreme bow of the neck, and damaged the threads.

    Fender saying they redesigned the necks to require more force on the truss rod nut?

    That sound like a load of crap!
    Truss rod threads will strip, making a neck disposable.
    A new design that requires even more force be applied to that weak point makes no sense.

    Is this a new guitar under warranty?
    I would loosen the nut all the way and confirm that either it turns freely on the threads and the neck is just very bowed, or that the threads are rusty or damaged.

    I tighten truss rods all the time with string tension, it is a normal and generally safe thing to do, unless the neck has a problem or is very old. Gibson's I'm more inclined to loosen the strings because the mahogany is softer and the nut is commonly brass, also softer.
    But a healthy Fender neck can have the truss rod adjusted with strings at pitch safely and effectively.
    It may still move a bit more for a day or so, but really, it's not as sci fi paranormal as some suggest.
    The exception would be if a neck is really bad.
    A neck with a whole lot of bow and a very tight truss rod is in that area of possibly really bad.

    Even a nut with no oil on the threads will turn pretty easily, and a Fender neck that was already adjusted and only needs to be tweaked a little should only need 1/8- 1/4 turn to bring it into good relief range.

    Some Fender necks only need 1/8 turn tighter than totally loose, or literally can be left loose on a heel adjust neck, thenn the string tension pulls the neck a little and the nut snugs up but the neck doesn't get excess relief.

    I think modern mass production particularly in Squier factories has brought us lots of weak necks that require excessive truss rod tension.
    Of course the fact that FMIC presumes we all want skinny necks means most necks are thin and need a little more rod tension.
    But it seems like the necks I've had that stayed straight with little or no tension are mostly from the "good old days".

    This is one way I judge current production guitars that are widely considered the golden age of guitar due to CNC "leveling the playing field".
    Remember that before the '50s it was common for the finest guitars to have no truss rod at all.
     
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  13. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    Well my second tele has not too loose or not too tight truss rod. I have still 2 years warranty for it mate. I have been told by many people that after time truss rod will be easier to adjust and that its possible with new guitars to have that kind of truss rod which is hard to adjust. It is not stiff but requiers some more pwoer to do it. There was not that much bow, small i would say.

    Wait or give it to tech ?
     
  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I would try loosening it all the way to confirm that the threads are not damaged or rusted etc.
    You can do this 1/4 turn of the wrench at a time and count up the turns, then tighten it back up the same number of turns and you'll have the same tension adjustment back.
    Post how many turns it took to loosen and if the nut turns freely with no tension.
    At least this would rule out damaged truss rod threads before the warranty expires.
    It's possible putting oil in the opening will only soak into the wood and not get to the threads since the nut doesn't have a hole in the middle for the oil to go through.
    If the threads are tight with no tension it's worth having a tech look at it.
    They might remove the nut to inspect the threads and oil if needed.
    Not sure about this neck but some actually trap the nut so you cannot remove it.
     
  15. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    I will try to loose it in a few days, although there second issue. Seems like truss rod is too deep i to neck, Allen key scratches nut ... Im sending it back to Guitarcenter, i got 2 years warranty
     
  16. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    Ok its first dya, i have loosen the truss rod by 1/4

    I will do it each day till friday i think?
     
  17. old wrench

    old wrench Tele-Holic

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    It's not a weird question at all :).

    The difference in appearance is due to how the hex recess was produced.

    I would say that Fender sourced the truss rods from different manufacturers, who used different machining processes.

    The one on the right (blue) was produced by drilling a hole and then pushing a tool called a broach into the hole to shave the inside corners of the hex off and push the shaved parts to the bottom of the hole. It's a machining process that's been around for a long, long, time.

    I'm not positive how the the hex was formed in the example on the left (red one). I have a feeling it was done similar to the blue one, but with a additional step added to clean up the bottom of the hole.

    And no worries, either one is just as good as the other from a functional perspective :).



    edit: I'm not going to comment on the adjustment issue, but I will say that on every neck I build, I'm very conscientious about lubricating ALL points of movement and friction on the truss rod with either a high quality light grease or oil, because that may be the last opportunity to do so. When the neck is completed, one end or the other of the truss rod is going to be "buried" in the neck.







    Best Regards,
    Geo.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  18. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I didn't mean just 1/4 turn per day.
    I was saying that if you loosen by 1/4 turn and count how many times 1/4 turn, you can loosen it all the way, and then tighten it back up the same number of 1/4 turns.
    Loosen the strings first though, so no tension on the strings and no tension on the rod.
    If you don't know how much to tighten it back up it takes longer to keep checking the relief and tightening the rod.

    When you loosen it you should get to the point where it is not pulling on the rod, so the nut turns freely, or it never turns freely.
    If it never turns freely no matter how much you loosen it, the threads are the problem.
    A double acting rod is a little different but I don't think this will be a double acting.
    If the nut turns freely when loose enough, you can figure the neck needs an awful lot of tension on the rod.
    In this case sight the neck or check it with a straight edge.
    If it is bowed up (too much relief) even with no tension on the strings, and the truss rod loose, you have a warped neck and might want to make a warranty claim. Or have a tech look at it.

    This is what I do if I take a neck off for a while so it won't be stored with tension on the rod in a back bow.
    I write on a piece of tape the number of turns that sets the relief correctly.
    Then I can set it right or close when i use the neck again.
     
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  19. reckless meanie

    reckless meanie Tele-Meister

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    65 ft/lbs anything less is jut too loose:)
     
  20. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Tele-Afflicted

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    Okay now i get it. I will losen the string and ty to do 1/4 turn a Day until it. Become loose. I will report Day by Day how it feels. Ill give it a few days. I think it feels looser after 2 days than before.
     
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