Did you remove the C20 bright cap from the master volume? The bright cap makes this amp sound thin at lower volume settings and pulling it gives you more consistent tone at different volumes...
How Loud is 5 Watts???
- Thread starter dreamingtele
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Did you remove the C20 bright cap from the master volume? The bright cap makes this amp sound thin at lower volume settings and pulling it gives you more consistent tone at different volumes...
It sounds crazy that a 5W amp is half the volume of a 50 watt amp, but it is true. When I was studying Electrical Engineering, I had acess to an Anechoic Chamber, where the walls absorb all of the sound.
I took my 50W Marshall in there, invited all my guitar buddies and cranked it all the way up (measured 67 Watts at full output!) I could actually stand in front of the amp and play it, but it did hurt my ears a bit - it seemed about twice as loud as a champ in that setting.
Remember that the room you are playing in is part of what you hear. A small spare room with a 50W amp is going to get LOTS of high frequencies reflecting off the walls and makes the amp A LOT louder in that room. Play it on a stage at an outdoor gig with grass and its not going to sound as loud because of low refelections.
This could make the difference between a 5W amp sounding just right or too loud - Where are you going to play it?
I took my 50W Marshall in there, invited all my guitar buddies and cranked it all the way up (measured 67 Watts at full output!) I could actually stand in front of the amp and play it, but it did hurt my ears a bit - it seemed about twice as loud as a champ in that setting.
Remember that the room you are playing in is part of what you hear. A small spare room with a 50W amp is going to get LOTS of high frequencies reflecting off the walls and makes the amp A LOT louder in that room. Play it on a stage at an outdoor gig with grass and its not going to sound as loud because of low refelections.
This could make the difference between a 5W amp sounding just right or too loud - Where are you going to play it?
strat a various
Friend of Leo's
IMO, measurements of decibels are not useful in describing how loud something sounds (in terms of musical instrument use in real life), because not everyone has the same hearing acuity. You're correct that the surroundings greatly affect the sound reaching our ears. Furthermore, our ears quickly get used to high volumes and our ears and brain attenuate the sound, or how we process the sound.
Wattage is a useless figure regarding volume, because every different circuit translates the signal to the transducer in different ways, so the frequencies aren't identically amplified. The only useful demonstration of volume relating to wattage would be an amp that is analyzed for wattage at a low volume, then turned up, analyzed for wattage again at a higher setting, all through the same speaker. No two guitar amps will develop identical wattage at identical settings, and even correcting for that, won't reproduce exactly the same frequencies. After all this, different listeners will interpret the loudness according to how their ears work and how acclimated they are to the volume.
If I could just put a spoke in again for the VHT sp 6, it has hi and low inputs, high and low outputs plus a pentode/cathode switch. You can be as quiet or as loud, as clean or as dirty as you need to be at the volume of your choice. It will hang clean in a band no problem if it's off the floor.
I have my sp6 modded to take bigger tubes and it runs about 7.5 watts with a 6L6. If the tiny terror is the originator of the small amp craze then the 6 is it's geeky, party-minded, dumb-ass kid brother.
I have my sp6 modded to take bigger tubes and it runs about 7.5 watts with a 6L6. If the tiny terror is the originator of the small amp craze then the 6 is it's geeky, party-minded, dumb-ass kid brother.
It all depends on where you place the amp and what speaker you have.
You mentioned not liking the Tiny Terror/Micro Terror Oranges... didn't say which one or which Cab, not all their Cabs & speakers are created equal. The 8" Voice of the World speaker is nothing at all to right home about, they put that in the PPC108 and used to pair that with the Micro Terror. A more expensive Cab was probably a lot nicer. IIRC some of the Terror series used solid state power sections as well so they were just different.
I've got the Rocker 15, the 10" speaker is rated at 101dB. (Rocker 32 has 2 of the same speaker) The amp has a 1W setting and it is MORE than loud enough at home on 1W. So for some speaker setups a 5W amp might be way too loud. I have my amp elevated which lets it seem louder to me as I play without turning up the volume more and annoying everyone else. In my setup the 7W or 15W settings are painfully loud, I will occasionally play clean sounds on 7W with the volume fairly low but the gain channel is too loud for comfort at 7W the way I have the room setup.
I know you said Fenderish but if I was looking today I'd have a hard time not going with one of the Vox MV50 models or the Vox Mini Super Beetle. Those are absolutely killer amps at their price points. I played a Marshall Origin 5 this week, I thought it was horrible compared to the MV50 & Super Beetles. Just cause the Vox models have NuTube & SS power sections doesn't mean they are worse than more traditional tube amps. Here in the US I've seen the Super Beetle head + 8" cab for $250. If that had existed when I bought my Orange I'd have bought the Mini Super Beetle all day long and been happy to pocket the $450 in savings, and it has reverb & tremolo too so that'd have saved another $200-300 over me buying pedals.
My other amp I use at home is a Roland Cube Street 2.5W * 2 with 2x6.5" speakers. It's theoretically rated at 5W but it is not louder than my Orange at 1W. It's a nice inexpensive SS amp though.
You mentioned not liking the Tiny Terror/Micro Terror Oranges... didn't say which one or which Cab, not all their Cabs & speakers are created equal. The 8" Voice of the World speaker is nothing at all to right home about, they put that in the PPC108 and used to pair that with the Micro Terror. A more expensive Cab was probably a lot nicer. IIRC some of the Terror series used solid state power sections as well so they were just different.
I've got the Rocker 15, the 10" speaker is rated at 101dB. (Rocker 32 has 2 of the same speaker) The amp has a 1W setting and it is MORE than loud enough at home on 1W. So for some speaker setups a 5W amp might be way too loud. I have my amp elevated which lets it seem louder to me as I play without turning up the volume more and annoying everyone else. In my setup the 7W or 15W settings are painfully loud, I will occasionally play clean sounds on 7W with the volume fairly low but the gain channel is too loud for comfort at 7W the way I have the room setup.
I know you said Fenderish but if I was looking today I'd have a hard time not going with one of the Vox MV50 models or the Vox Mini Super Beetle. Those are absolutely killer amps at their price points. I played a Marshall Origin 5 this week, I thought it was horrible compared to the MV50 & Super Beetles. Just cause the Vox models have NuTube & SS power sections doesn't mean they are worse than more traditional tube amps. Here in the US I've seen the Super Beetle head + 8" cab for $250. If that had existed when I bought my Orange I'd have bought the Mini Super Beetle all day long and been happy to pocket the $450 in savings, and it has reverb & tremolo too so that'd have saved another $200-300 over me buying pedals.
My other amp I use at home is a Roland Cube Street 2.5W * 2 with 2x6.5" speakers. It's theoretically rated at 5W but it is not louder than my Orange at 1W. It's a nice inexpensive SS amp though.
My Silvertone (1391 is the model?) and the VHT SP6 are both designed to use a 6V6 power tubes.
The Silvertone has a tube rectifier, unlike the SP6. The SP6 has a larger, and I assume more powerful output transformer. Silvertone also has an 8" speaker, and the SP6 is 10. They are very different. My mentioning of the two was only to say that similar wattage amps can be very different in volume.
The VHT SP6 has been mentioned quite a few times in the thread. A Vox AC4 was mentioned too. The VHT crushes an AC4,,,I compared head to head in a store.
The VHT has nice cleans but does start to breakup at a level which is loud at home, but not unbearable. I use the VHT clean with a Vox Tonelab and it sounds really, really good with a more advanced pre-amp and effects. I've also used the SP6 with a 12" ext cabinet for more volume, it's good. I currently use an EL84 tube in my SP6 and have run it with the 6V6 and also EL34. I've played around with a 6L6 in there but don't have one that makes it sound better than the EL84 or EL34's I have on hand
You should check one out.
dreamingtele
Poster Extraordinaire
Okay guys, i know I was looking for a tube amp, but you wont believe what I found in the pawnshop today selling for 80 usd.
Vox Pathfinder 15-R
I dont know if its the original grill cloth or modified. It has the orig speakers and everything works. So i got it. This thing is loud!
Vox Pathfinder 15-R
I dont know if its the original grill cloth or modified. It has the orig speakers and everything works. So i got it. This thing is loud!
Squire Televille
Tele-Holic
Dang! I was just going to put in another recommendation for the VHT Special 6.
I'll take tone over volume any day. Small amps can be made louder via micing through the PA. Unmiced, all one really needs is to be as loud as the drums.
I'll take tone over volume any day. Small amps can be made louder via micing through the PA. Unmiced, all one really needs is to be as loud as the drums.
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strat a various
Friend of Leo's
See, that's not exactly right. You need to be as loud as the gig requires. Unless the drummer owns the venue, he doesn't set the volume for any professional definition of a gig. The owner or manager are the arbiters of what is too loud and too quiet ... unless you are only playing in the garage or den, and then, yeah, I guess if it's the drummer's garage or den, then you're right.
dreamingtele
Poster Extraordinaire
I learned a lot in this thread. And even learned of amps like the ones mentioned exists!!
I’m really considering the VHT 6 Ultra. Tax season is upon us here in OZ. I may have enough funds for it in a few months!
There’s a lot of amps in this category though, i like the Blackstar HT5 Mk2 as well. But I will compare these amps to my original plan which is getting a Pro Jr, but I just wished it has a 12” speaker!
For now, my lounge sofa practice amp would be the pathfinder 15R. And I’ll buy a real tube amp very soon!!!
The Pathfinder gets much love here, which, to overcome the bias toward glowing glass is accolade enough.
Be warned about going down the valve route though. Once you buy one, another follows. They follow faster if you buy a speaker cabinet, then populate your shelving with fine sounding, low powered heads. You need something close to a Champ. You really do. And a Vox. Don't forget a Vox, 'though the Pathfinder may suffice for now. Marshall tones?, they'll follow.
Next, you scour small-ads for obscure valves. NOS, ANOS, reissues. You spend time switching valves in and out to get your sounds 'just so'. The next phase is you build your own. Now, there is no hope left for you. The 'step' programs do not work.
'Hello group, my name is VintageSG and I'm an ampoholic'
Enjoy your new toy!
Be warned about going down the valve route though. Once you buy one, another follows. They follow faster if you buy a speaker cabinet, then populate your shelving with fine sounding, low powered heads. You need something close to a Champ. You really do. And a Vox. Don't forget a Vox, 'though the Pathfinder may suffice for now. Marshall tones?, they'll follow.
Next, you scour small-ads for obscure valves. NOS, ANOS, reissues. You spend time switching valves in and out to get your sounds 'just so'. The next phase is you build your own. Now, there is no hope left for you. The 'step' programs do not work.
'Hello group, my name is VintageSG and I'm an ampoholic'
Enjoy your new toy!
oatsoda
Tele-Afflicted
Loud enough to be contraversial up at the community hall acoustic jam night.
horseman308
Tele-Holic
Glad you found something you like! That's really all that matters in the end. Enjoy it!
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
LeicaBoss
Tele-Holic
A 5W amp with 102dB efficiency speaker will be 100.7dB at 12 feet away.
That is loud AF
50W amp with a less efficient (97dB) speaker would only be 105.7dB
That is loud AF
50W amp with a less efficient (97dB) speaker would only be 105.7dB
dreamingtele
Poster Extraordinaire
The funny thing is, in all my years of playing I havent really owned a tube amp. this is my first, hopefully not the last.. but Im really planning to get a small tube amp.. I dont want the big guns, I have prams and tons of baby stuff in my car.. I dont want to haul a twin!
One thing Im worried about is the servicing, how often does a tube amp gets serviced???
dreamingtele
Poster Extraordinaire
Its more like, I found something that can work for now! but I hit the jackpot on this, as there's another one listed for 250.. but thats in perfect condition.. this one has some nicks and bumps, but overall good. kind of like a well used, but loved condition!
I really want to get a tube amp soon!
dreamingtele
Poster Extraordinaire
One time we played in an indoor venue that has a very OC sound guy who measured dB in every corner of the stage.. we did a run through of one song and we measured at around 99 dB, which he said was okay for the size of the venue, BUT i thought we were loud! but my amp was mic'ed so I never got to crank it anyway..
LP26
Tele-Meister
I recently sold a Pro Jr IV to help finance the purchase of a 62 Princeton.
I had installed a 10 inch Tone Tubby Humboldt speaker in that amp and it delivered tone that belied the both amp's and the speaker's size.
The Pro Jr IV is also pretty attractive with its lacquered tweed cabinet. Not a performance issue, I know, but the amp does have a rather nice stage presence.
I had installed a 10 inch Tone Tubby Humboldt speaker in that amp and it delivered tone that belied the both amp's and the speaker's size.
The Pro Jr IV is also pretty attractive with its lacquered tweed cabinet. Not a performance issue, I know, but the amp does have a rather nice stage presence.
wrathfuldeity
Friend of Leo's
Yes, mic'd...However another option would be to use a JD10 Session Master...yea its not a tube amp, but as a preamp it nails the big twin clean tone.
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