How long is a Tonemaster amp designed to last? FACTS ONLY.

[Short on cash]

The last payment.

 

[Pcs264]

I can't be bothered to completely go through this thread and count it up, but would anyone else hazard a guess as to what % of the responses in these 21 pages are actually facts? I'm thinking anywhere from 3% to 7% (being generous). Lots of opinions - some I agree with and some I don't (neither of which matters) - some seem quite reasonable and some not so much.

But given the thread's title "How long is a Tonemaster amp designed to last? FACTS ONLY.",perhaps it's time for our admins to consider closing this one down. Just my opinion, not a fact.

 

[1 21 gigawatts]

Kind of off topic but an interesting story about planned obsolescence. Did you know that the technology existed 100 years ago to make light bulbs last a lifetime? The light bulb manufacturers got together in 1925 to set the limit at 1,000 hours, which they strictly enforced with financial penalties to any manufacturer that made better bulbs. The average life span for a consumer light bulb prior to 1925 was 2,500 hours!

 

[Mike M]

Kind of off topic but an interesting story about planned obsolescence. Did you know that the technology existed 100 years ago to make light bulbs last a lifetime? The light bulb manufacturers got together in 1925 to set the limit at 1,000 hours, which they strictly enforced with financial penalties to any manufacturer that made better bulbs. The average life span for a consumer light bulb prior to 1925 was 2,500 hours!

and Gillette Razor blades...

 

[middy]

Great system! Let’s commoditize everything!

 

[Blrfl]

But given the thread's title "How long is a Tonemaster amp designed to last? FACTS ONLY.",perhaps it's time for our admins to consider closing this one down. Just my opinion, not a fact.

There's no reason for that. Nothing here violates the rules and there's plenty of useful discussion to be had around speculating about it. If the mods axed everything that wandered off topic, TDPRI would have a lot of locked threads.

The only valid answer to a question like this one is "it's designed to last at least until the warranty expires and anything you get beyond that is gravy." Stipulating facts only when nobody can give a definitive answer makes it easy to say the product must be a steaming pile because nobody's providing any assurances. If people want 50 years of actual field experience, they shouldn't buy anything that's been on the market any less time.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I always assumed the "FACTS ONLY" thing in the title was tongue in cheek.

 

[JRapp]

There are no real 'facts' in this instance...unless you want to say they (or some, or most) have lasted from September 2109 to now. You can only judge the long-term longevity by comparing them to similar devices from the same manufacturer using similar components and construction.

 

[mycroftxxx]

You can rest assured that the chips, transistors, resistors and caps used on earth for ANYTHING are nowhere near the quality of the ones used on the Mars Rover.

That’s not necessarily true. For something like a spacecraft, or something designed to work on the Martian surface which is equivalent to 22 mikes above the Earth’s surface (roughly halfway to space), the main issue with chips is radiation (cosmic rays, solar wind, etc.), so the chips would typically be designed for that environment (”rad-hard”), or heavily shielded. Either way, the the performance per dollar is drastically less than the equivalent hardware on Earth.

Aerospace systems are designed to a price point too, but depending on the part, the consequences of failure can be death or serious injury, so we commonly look at parts whose failure rates are measured in tens to hundreds of thousands of flight hours. As fas as I know, your typical guitar amp isn’t standing between the guitarist and certain death, but then again I don’t know where you gig

 

[KyAnne]

That’s not necessarily true. For something like a spacecraft, or something designed to work on the Martian surface which is equivalent to 22 mikes above the Earth’s surface (roughly halfway to space), the main issue with chips is radiation (cosmic rays, solar wind, etc.), so the chips would typically be designed for that environment (”rad-hard”), or heavily shielded. Either way, the the performance per dollar is drastically less than the equivalent hardware on Earth.

Aerospace systems are designed to a price point too, but depending on the part, the consequences of failure can be death or serious injury, so we commonly look at parts whose failure rates are measured in tens to hundreds of thousands of flight hours. As fas as I know, your typical guitar amp isn’t standing between the guitarist and certain death, but then again I don’t know where you gig

All general public consumer products are designed to fail. Some, built in "other countries" have higher failure rate and obvious low quality to begin with.

 

[ETMusic777]

Kind of off topic but an interesting story about planned obsolescence. Did you know that the technology existed 100 years ago to make light bulbs last a lifetime? The light bulb manufacturers got together in 1925 to set the limit at 1,000 hours, which they strictly enforced with financial penalties to any manufacturer that made better bulbs. The average life span for a consumer light bulb prior to 1925 was 2,500 hours!

The famous lightbulb at the Livermore Fire Station has been reportedly burning for over 120 years.

 

[KyAnne]

All general public consumer products are designed to fail. Some, built in "other countries" have higher failure rate and obvious low quality to begin with.

The "people behind the curtain" have great plans concerning "us". Rarely are they good plans.

 

[thunderbyrd]

OP asked for facts only. Nobody knows the facts.

 

[bobio]

 

[tacobender]

I didn’t read all this, but you don’t need planned obsolescence with guitar players, we by nature, will buy more gear.

 

[fred4321]

I'll chime in, I have electronics from the 70's and 80's (HiFi, Old Guitar Amps etc) that still work. I oplayed an old Fender Champion 100 that's years old and still going strong. I use a Boss ME 6 that still works.

 

[naveed211]

Even things that have planned obsolescence factored in (most tech products these days) still work many years later.

The tech may be way behind the times, but it usually doesn’t just disintegrate or power down and never come back up on a certain date.

Old ass modeling amps from the 90s still work, whether you think they still sound good is opinion. Old ass computers often can still work, they might be slow as hell, but they can still work. An old ass iPhone will probably still work, it won’t have all the functionality and cool factor of a new one, but it can still work.

I don’t think Fender is building ToneMasters to break down or stop working any time in the foreseeable future. Will modeling technology progress past them in a few years? Probably. Will they be functioning….no one knows for sure…but the history of computers and computer-based tech is a good indicator most units will probably still work many years down the road.

 

[chris m.]

I don't think the intentionally include obsolescence....it's all about designing to a price point which has the side effect of resulting in a break down some day.

A good factual discussion could be regarding what aspect of the design is the most failure-prone under typical operating conditions. The speaker? Any ribbon-connectors?

I also appreciate the discussion about making things repairable vs. disposable. There is a repair movement out there where folks are clamoring for industry to construct things in ways that make them more readily repairable. iPhones are a great example of making it harder than it should be to replace batteries and do other simple things. On the other hand, this has created a cottage industry for folks who specialize in repairing iPhones.

 

[printer2]

I designed a test rig to load in tension an arm that was used on a helicopter for search and rescue. In the end the arm went through about half a million cycles. It was not designed for obsolescence but rather to insure a certain service life. It could have been over designed but that would add more weight and mass is of importance on an aircraft. All parts are designed to a given spec., add more parts and the failure rate will go up. Things like our phones are really a marvel in engineering.

 

[chris m.]

From the Interwebs:

"The modern microprocessor is far and away the most complex device ever invented or manufactured by mankind. Currently, a microprocessor can have 18 billion transistors using 10 nm process technology on a sliver of silicon that is less than 400 square millimeters. That it can be manufactured & it works is only this far >< away from magic."

But think of something like a modern jet aircraft or space vehicle-- it is a composite object filled with microprocessors, mechanical systems, chemical engineering systems, engines, all kinds of highly engineered materials, etc. And as noted....the more complex the object, the more potential failure points. Including the failure that happens when one piece fails and that results in a cascade of problems for other components that are tied to that piece without due regard to system redundancy....such as the Boeing 737 Max debacle.