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How far would we have to travel back in time, for a Honda Accord to with Indy 500?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by homesick345, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    I agree .
    Consider what the result would be if you took one of those older Indy cars and applied modern materials , machining and alcohol fuel to them based on an identical design .
    Just the availability of insert bearings instead of poured babbit bearings alone is huge .
    Put modern skins on them wheels .....
    It wouldn't even be close .
    Cam timing , lift , duration and lobe centers as well as ignition timing of the day were limited by fuels alone .
    The 4 valve per cylinder pentroof combustion chamber was designed in 1923 by a Peugeot engineer .
    Building one of these oldsters using modern materials and processes would be far simpler than trying to go back . It would also be a more fair comparison .
    This takes me to a paper that I read by a Shell engineer that worked with Honda during the turbo years . They were pulling incredible HP numbers from these small engines that were not running on gasoline . The fuel that they were using was a blend of 22 different chemical compounds that , if rated , would have had an octane rating somewhere in the high to mid 50's . This fuel would destroy any road based engine very quickly because they simply are not efficient enough to utilize it . They would quickly pre ignite into pieces .
    Coming back to the Honda accord . The gasoline of the day likely would have burned that engine to the ground .
    Bottom line is that this is a very poor comparison at best .
    Of course , if you go back far enough , they raced on bricks .
    The vibration induced by this surface may end up rattling an accord to pieces .
     
  2. Stubee

    Stubee Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    I think a Honda Accord would have held up pretty well way way back when the avg speed was pretty low. Haven't looked it up, but first bunch of 500s.

    It never woulda stood a chance against one of my favorite Indy memories.
     

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  3. 017_017

    017_017 Friend of Leo's

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    Back when I watched rally (around 1999), the front wheel drive F2 cars were routinely as quick, if not quicker, than the WRC cars on dry tarmac. So I think an Accord could at least be competitive in the the early Indy 500 days.

    The next question, is which Accord, and would it need to be something you could buy at a dealer? If so, I'd nominate a recent year Accord Euro R. If it's no limits, then let's go with a race-prepped BTCC Accord touring car.
     
  4. JReazor

    JReazor Tele-Holic

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    I'd think that you'd have to back to the 1950s at the very least. The 2016 Accord Coupe with a 4 banger and manual has an estimated top speed of 155mph. By the 50s, the average race wining speed was well in to the 120s and fastest laps were above 140.

    Of course, that would depend on the Honda's ability to do 500 miles that close to its limit.
     
  5. src9000

    src9000 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Forget, these naysayers Homes. You have a chance. Make sure your tanks full before you go.


    Just checked, I guess you didn't go.
     
  6. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Silver Supporter

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    Haa yea. I think that Porsche was the safety pace car in that vid or else it was running out of gas.

    Anyway, that FWD vid shows about the only advantage with FWD for racing and that is very tight corners at relatively slow speeds. That vid displays the real disadvantage of FWD as only keeping two wheels on the ground. FWD have historically been successful in road rallyes with cars like the Saab 96 and the original Mini Cooper.

    The modern tire comment seems valid, but I'm not so sure with front wheel drive on a banked track. Seems like that front outside tire would get a lot of wear.
     
  7. 017_017

    017_017 Friend of Leo's

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    Miller had some front wheel drive Indianapolis race cars.
     
  8. Danomo

    Danomo Tele-Holic

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    Small wheels, Rear Drums? What year Accord are you talking?

    Base (LX) 2016 Accord comes with 4 wheel disc, and wheel sizes start at 16" (and go to 19").
    While certainly not race car specs, by midsize sedan specs they are the norm.
     
  9. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Super Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

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    My current Honda (91 Prelude) has 4 wheel disc brakes...and 949 Racing aluminum 15x8 wheels, with KSport adjustable coilovers... :twisted:

    Also... all four wheels steer.
     
  10. Danomo

    Danomo Tele-Holic

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    Well, everyone seemed to be going with a base model Accord, which are the specs I was quoting. I was just curious to what Accord Obsessed was referring to.
     
  11. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    You forgot bad-assedness.

    So - everything except top speed and bad-assedness...:lol:
     
  12. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Quote:
    A FWD Honda Odyssey minivan will outperform a 70's Plymouth Superbird in everything except top speed

    The Superbird is for starting families, the Honda is for hauling them.:D
     
  13. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Silver Supporter

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    Yeah, I'm old school and pay little attention to newer Japanese cars (or old ones for that matter). Brakes on the rear of a FWD have little bearing since there is little weight on them during hard braking required by racing. Yep, there were a few adventurous unsuccessful FWD race cars for brief times in history. There were crazier things like the 6 wheeled Tyrrell P34:
     

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  14. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this

    Jean Ragnotti: The elegance & greatness of European drivers....
     
  15. Boomhauer

    Boomhauer Friend of Leo's

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    What could be cooler than racing the Indy 500 while listening to NPR and texting your buddies?
     
  16. teleamp

    teleamp Poster Extraordinaire

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    Hey, a Houston car dealer is refurbishing and will be selling them...
     
  17. Commodore 64

    Commodore 64 Friend of Leo's

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    If you had enough fuel and ammo, I wonder if you could change the course of a historical battle, like the Battle of Hastings, with a single M1A1 Abrams tank.
     
  18. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    There was a Diesel and , of course the four wheel drive first generation turbine and Mickey Thompson's four wheel steer cars .
    The Superbird and Dodge Daytona were created for the purpose of handling , not maximum speed .
    Just as the Chaparral 2E for the purpose of handling .
    The handling was enhanced through aerodynamic downforce at the expense of drag/top speed .
     
  19. HotRodSteve

    HotRodSteve Friend of Leo's

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    My old '84 Accord Hatchback would have technically made it around the track 100,000 times with normal maintenance before it started coughing up blood. Plus if it snowed on the track, no problem. Let's see some fancy million dollar Indy car do that.
     
  20. Nick JD

    Nick JD Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I'd rather have the question: how far back for a Honda Accord to be competitive at Watkins Glen ... Accords can turn right.

    For the folk talking about Honda Oddessys (after the Porsche at 6:34):



    And to add a slight change to the OPs question: when would a Honda CBR1000 have been competitive in MotoGP/500s?
     
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