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How ethical?

Discussion in 'Band Wagon' started by JHVH!, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. JHVH!

    JHVH! Banned

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    What is everyone's take on going to auditions to scout
    for other players for a band you're putting together?

    I recently met someone who claims to be a big shot
    touring musician, and claims this is an accepted
    practice in the pro-level touring world.

    This person came in auditioning for a bass the spot,
    but got in touch with me later to tell me he had been scouting
    for a guitar player and steel player.

    It really stuck me as rather f*cked up.
     
  2. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    He wasted your time, implicitly because he feels your time has no value but his does, i.e. a judgment of superiority. Sounds like an a-hole move.
     
  3. Ed Boyd

    Ed Boyd Tele-Afflicted

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    My experience has been that superior talent attracts superior talent..... or birds of a feather flock together. Good musicians work with good musicians. Around here if he was a big shot he would know the best players and the best players would know who he is. There should be no need for sneakin'. Maybe put out an ad for auditions and in many cases someone who is what he says he is could just make some calls.

    The music business is a pretty tight group. A huge reason that if you want to be a player you should try your best to be a nice guy. You may not know anyone in the band you want to audition for but odds are the band knows someone who knows you.

    The music business is full of liars at the wannabee level. I am not sure why. Maybe it takes some amount of delusions of grandeur for some people to get on stage in the first place. I have no idea it just seems to me music attracts more than it's fair share of nut jobs.
     
  4. sax4blues

    sax4blues Friend of Leo's

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    That seems like a very laborious way to go about it, and disingenuous waste of everyones time. Why not just get out in the music community, see who the bands and players are, and recruit from there?

    Are you sure he's not doing both, looking to join a band and start his own thing? Most people I know move in circles and are in and out of "projects".
     
  5. Flat6Driver

    Flat6Driver Friend of Leo's

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    I guess it depends....if you liked the guy, he could play and you all clicked would you consider joining his project and dissolving your own? I'm guessing not else the post would be different.

    The real question was whether at the time he was honestly auditioning for your band and later tried to pull a switcheroo or came in with false pretenses from the get go.
     
  6. Hiker

    Hiker Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's all good, unless he steals your talent. Why would anyone in that role-ever be completely honest about his intentions? Do not trust the guy at all-you don't really know him or his motives, right?

    He's justifying his actions by calling this scheme an industry practice. Those words alone should set off alarm bells in your head!

    Think of a management consultant going into a company, and working outside of the scope of items included in the engagement agreement. He collects the names, and contact info. for employees that can be recruited by a company (or companies) that he's in contact with. Then, he gets a fee, or thanks for helping steal your talent by the recipient company. :rolleyes:
     
  7. Bill

    Bill Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    That happened to me. I got a call from someone in HR at a big software company. I told her I didn't recall applying to that company. She told me she got my resume when she was working at a different software company a few months earlier. Apparently she took a copy of my resume with her to her new employer.

    I'm sure her previous employer would have been thrilled to know that.
     
  8. AirBagTester

    AirBagTester Friend of Leo's

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    I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with headhunting at an audition, but the problem with that strategy is that if it works to his favor it might not be a good first impression to make on his new band mates. The new recruits might feel just as inclined to leave again. But that's okay, people should be able to explore their options. And if he's good, it could turn out to be something that might not have happened otherwise!

    On the other hand, if it DOESN'T work and he gets no takers, what will people think of him then?
     
  9. SamClemons

    SamClemons Poster Extraordinaire

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    Sounds stupid to me. If he wants to scout talented players, better off to go to shows and see someone in action in front of a crowd.
     
  10. JHVH!

    JHVH! Banned

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    Well, everyone seems to concur. Now the Universe
    will implode. :lol:

    Actually it wasn't my audition I was playing guitar with a group where
    he auditioned for the bass player position. He first called on the steel player,
    then the steel player pulled me in. I went to two rehearsals, then was
    summarily fired today. He claims he wanted someone who was more of a player
    and performer. While Prince I ain't, I think I play okay.


    Can't seem to get the video to embed. Oh well.
    Anyway, even if I am a crappy player with no stage
    presence, seems that everyone agrees. I've worked in
    quite a few professional working bands and had never encountered
    this method/tactic before.

    In thirty years of gigs, I thought I'd seen it all.
     
  11. dan1952

    dan1952 Friend of Leo's

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    Derek and the Dominoes.
     
  12. Ed Boyd

    Ed Boyd Tele-Afflicted

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    You had a space before the X.

     
  13. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    That I can recall I've only run into it once where a guy supposedly "stopped by" to check out a band I was in who was looking for a guitarist. He ended up taking on the vocalist who was by far the worst and least experienced musician in the group only to find that out in short order and let him go.

    The guy claimed to have all kinds or contacts for gigs and all he needed was a "few" players to fill the band and the gigs would be rolling in. To me a "few" players in a four or five piece band means this guy needed a complete backup band for his project and I had no interest in pursuing anything with him. I've seldom met any musician I trusted less based on a first impression.

    That last I heard his project failed and I'm not surprised. If you're a pro then act like one and be honest with people about your talent level, abilities and desires period. No bull****.
     
  14. sax4blues

    sax4blues Friend of Leo's

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    Fired is a little out of place here. You jammed with some guys and it didn't fit, no big deal.

    I'm at a loss of how this guy is a big time touring player and he can't figure out who is who. My son is in the hard core genre and these bands all know each other and who the players are because they are constantly touring together. Some guys will fill in on a tour when their primary band is not.
     
  15. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    This was my first thought as well. When I was still gigging regularly, there was a pretty sizable network of players who all knew each other. When my band broke up, I could've gotten another gig really easily just by making a few phone calls.
     
  16. soul-o

    soul-o Friend of Leo's

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    The music business is not a good context to expect ethical behavior. In the immortal words of Alex Chilton, the whole thing is "pretty scummy, really".
     
  17. JHVH!

    JHVH! Banned

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    Thanks Ed B.

    Not really, because I was specifically led to believe something else.
    But that's not really the issue. It's the weirdness of his methods.

    Soul-O - great point, really.
     
  18. JHVH!

    JHVH! Banned

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    That's a valid point. And I generally agree. But there's enough
    about this that I don't quite comprehend that leaves room for
    reasonable doubt. I think it comes down to my having been fortunate
    enough to have made a living playing, while working with honest,
    decent, professional people.

    So apparently this guy is sketchy, and I couldn't or wouldn't see
    it. Something similar happened to me only once before, and the band
    leader was the type of person who brought his girlfriend of 20 years
    to all the gigs, rather than bring his wife of 35 years instead.

    Now that's a barometer of character I'd wager.
     
  19. TeleTim911

    TeleTim911 Friend of Leo's

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    How does one "scout" at auditions? Most of the auditions I've been to have been in someone's garage/basement or private rehearsal room. Are they doing this in a bar or something?
     
  20. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    taking away someone's free agency is ethically wrong to me.
    We should all have the freedom to roam at will.
    With bands, people should play with the people they want to play with and when opportunities arise, we should be able to go with the wind and play....

    So long as people live up to their agreed upon gigs etc... what they do outside that is fine.

    If a guy goes to an audition he has as much right to decide to invite players as the band does to invite him to join...

    I auditioned for a guy about 8 years ago... I learned 8 of his originals, nailed the parts (imho) and he laughed and said, "wow, you learned the solos!" and then told me that I didn't have the 'right look' and that he wanted someone who would bring 'something more' to his songs....I shrugged. I came from work wearing a polo shirt and khakis and he knew that...

    As I was packing up and walking down his driveway (long one in Berkeley) the bass player followed, gave me his card and said "if you DO join a band and you need a bass player, I'd love to play with you."

    people are weird. musicians are people. for me, if someone is creepy, no thanks.
     
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