How do you use the four control layout of e.g. a Gibson?

[nosuch]

Lately (with our organ trio) I use semi-acoustic guitars again after years of "tele for everything". I have an Ibanez JSM and lately acquired a very nice Gibson 335. Especially on stage I have a hard time with the 4 control layout. I thought to use the seperated controls for the pickups as "presets" – rolling back the tone of the bridge pickup a bit and let the neck pickup's tone dimed so I can switch between them to get the tones I like. But then the middle position is tamed too much.
Also I find it hard to control the volume in the middle position as a change of volume requires to change both pickup's volumes controls which is a PITA on stage IMHO.

Maybe I'm just too damn stupid – or maybe you good people could share some thoughts as how to use the controls to my advantage?

 

[brookdalebill]

I just turn the pots all the way up, and use the pickup selector to change tones.
I set my pickup heights to have equal volume, and control my dynamics with playing style and picking intensity.
I will very rarely use the neck pickup volume control for swells.
To me, the guitar sounds weak when the volume pots are diminished, and traditional (audio) taper tone pots just muddy-up the tone.
I’ve owned many Gibson guitars with the traditional 4 control layout.
I have always found them useless.

 

[EsquireOK]

I too dislike the V/T/V/T setup, and I don't even use the middle switch position. I convert to master volume and two tones. Then I wire the "empty" control as a passive bass control. It can be set to work on either one of the two pickups (take your pick), or on the whole guitar.

You can also have passive bass and treble for each pickup, and no volume control.

 

[radiocaster]

That's the point of it, either you set up for one pickup or the other, or for the the middle or lead position.

For the middle position you need to back off a bit of neck volume or else it'll sound like all neck, unless you have modern pickups with a super loud bridge pickup.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

It can take a while before it becomes automatic, but you'll get used to it. I tend to play mostly on the bridge pickup myself. But some use the quasi-preset method you mentioned; I think that was the thinking behind four-knob guitars back in the old days. Others play in middle position all the time and adjust the balance between pickups using one or both volume knobs. This gives you access to a very broad spectrum of finely tuned tones - for somebody who's used to Fenders it can feel like a revelation.

One factor that matters a lot is how well-balanced the pickups are with each other when both are full on. Of course thanks to physics the amplitude of the strings' vibration is much wider near the neck than it is by the bridge, so neck position is fundamentally louder than bridge position.

Nowadays, better balance is usually achieved with a bridge humbucker that's quite a bit more powerful than the neck. If there isn't much difference between the two (as with vintage or low-wind pickups) the solution often is to set the neck humbucker very low from the strings, level with its mounting ring.

 

[nosuch]

Both my semis have the neck pickup louder than the bridge pickup if both are dimed. I think they just used the same pickup (Super 58 on the Ibby, MHS Humbuckers on the Gibby) for both positions. My Les Paul Studio has better balanced pickups, I think the bridge pickup has more windings – which make it easier to balance the tones.
So far I tame the neck pickup volume a bit with tone full, while on the bridge pickup I tame the tone a bit with volume full. In the middle position I'm trying to approximate a funky tele middle position tone – which in theory could use the tone pot of the bridge dimed.

But my biggest concern is: I don't use pedals so utilizing the guitar volume is my way to get all my tones – mostly clean, but sometimes (seldom) just at the edge of breakup. Which is kind of uncomfortable in the middle position. Maybe I just have to get used to it.

Just a thought: How do you think would a setup with a master volume and a blend for the pickups (either loosing the 3-way switch or using the blend only in the middle position work?

 

[Bob Womack]

Well firstly, most of my four-control Gibsons blend best when I roll off the treble on the bridge pickup. With out that, the bridge is usually too raucous. Secondly, most people I've watched use EITHER the combination/blend capability OR the preset capability at any given time, but not both on the same song. For instance, Duane Allman was known to use the preset ability on some songs and the blend capability on others. Thirdly, in the middle position, the first portion of either one of the volume controls serves as blend and you can't get easy volume changes. It is simply a compromise and a fact of life.

And now a little fun! Watch this and count the number of times Warren changes pickup:


Bob

 

[WingedWords]

I'm glad it's not just me. I got my first 4 control humbucker guitar, a Les Paul, last autumn and I'm struggling to get on top of it after 40 years of single coils. I think I'm still trying to make Tele sounds rather than listening to what the LP wants to sound like.

So I'm following this thread with interest.

 

[Chiogtr4x]

Part of my problem ( maybe ?) is that I never owned a really good sounding Gibson -style guitar ( here, I mean acoustically-primo materials/construction) to get the most out of it.
I always owned Epi " 335's",and upgraded them with Gibson '57 pickups, and even then as really a Fender player, just always thought these guitars sounded dark.

So to make these guitars easier to play/control during gigs, I'd basically 'eliminate variables' by keeping the 2 Tone controls cranked ( maybe back off a little as needed, but then crank back up) use all 3 PU positions, and when in middle position, I'd control " Tone" by shading the two Volume controls- usually giving the edge to bridge PU volume- but I basically left the Tone controls all the way up.
Sadly, needed to sell guitars as I needed $$, and these guitars never 'got the gigs'the way I favored my Fenders.

 

[Bob Womack]

Like the quite limited Tele setup, you must accept it for what it is and learn to work it, just like Deacon Blues learned to work the saxophone. Gibson four-knob has been my home base since 1977 and I find it extremely flexible where the Tele is less so.

Bob

 

[strat a various]

Lately (with our organ trio) I use semi-acoustic guitars again after years of "tele for everything". I have an Ibanez JSM and lately acquired a very nice Gibson 335. Especially on stage I have a hard time with the 4 control layout. I thought to use the seperated controls for the pickups as "presets" – rolling back the tone of the bridge pickup a bit and let the neck pickup's tone dimed so I can switch between them to get the tones I like. But then the middle position is tamed too much.
Also I find it hard to control the volume in the middle position as a change of volume requires to change both pickup's volumes controls which is a PITA on stage IMHO.

Maybe I'm just too damn stupid – or maybe you good people could share some thoughts as how to use the controls to my advantage?

Try this: Select the middle switch position (both pick-ups on). Turn the bridge pickup all the way up. Control the overall volume of the pickups with the neck pickup volume control. This gives you a master volume of sorts and a very wide frequency response.

 

[djh22]

I'm glad it's not just me ... I'm following this thread with interest.

You and me both!

 

[nojazzhere]

Lately (with our organ trio) I use semi-acoustic guitars again after years of "tele for everything". I have an Ibanez JSM and lately acquired a very nice Gibson 335. Especially on stage I have a hard time with the 4 control layout. I thought to use the seperated controls for the pickups as "presets" – rolling back the tone of the bridge pickup a bit and let the neck pickup's tone dimed so I can switch between them to get the tones I like. But then the middle position is tamed too much.
Also I find it hard to control the volume in the middle position as a change of volume requires to change both pickup's volumes controls which is a PITA on stage IMHO.

Maybe I'm just too damn stupid – or maybe you good people could share some thoughts as how to use the controls to my advantage?

In the rare cases where I had a "two volume/two tone" guitar, I have converted them to one volume/one tone format, and simply disable the other two knobs. I like the "sound" of the two pickups together, and it's difficult to adjust overall volume "equally". I know I give up some tones by doing this, but I feel for the convenience it's worth it.
Not part of the original question, but I also change a Strat to "one volume/one tone" as well. Since I have to play guitar, sing, direct band, AND check out hot chicks, ( ) all at the same time, my feeble mind just can't handle all the "multi-tasking". Keep It Simple, Stupid!

 

[MilwMark]

It’s just a different mindset. As others said, on a 4 knob guitar I set up so switching becomes my volume/tone change.

Tone full up on both pickups.

Neck volume rolled off slightly.

Gives a nice middle sound too.

Fiddling with both volumes on the fly becomes second nature over time.

 

[Milspec]

You just nailed the reason that I have avoided such instruments, I just don't like the 4 controls set-up. Instead, I look to Godin for my hollow-body instruments, they are fantastic instruments with dual knobs for the most part.

 

[ifallalot]

I would just use It as "presets" for each pickup and basically eschew the middle position.

 

[Controller]

It's a good question. I dime the tones, preset the pickup volumes and amp during setup and control tone with attack and use a pick and finger pick. I played only acoustic for many years so picking dynamics are second nature. I have to say, my Epi 339 has coil splits on both humbuckers and I have mostly settled on the neck single coil and the bridge full humbucker mode for that guitar.

 

[Flakey]

I wire all my 2x2 controls 50's style so there are a wide range of tones that can be had. I usually keep the switch in the center and roll the respective vol. control in or out of the circuit as needed after i set my tone controls for each pickup. If I need to drop back after I've played solo break I flip to the neck pickup.

 

[Tommy Biggs]

Over the years I've done the following on primarily Les Pauls.

Hardcore - Bridge on full, Neck on 0, use the toggle as a kill switch.

Indie-ish bands - Bridge rolled off a little, Neck rolled off more. Played a lot in the middle toggle position, flipped to the neck for quiet parts, and flipped to the bridge for fills.
None of the sounds were optimized for playing alone, but worked just fine in the band situation. Of course there were times I had to go full on with the Bridge pickup.

Watching guys like Jeff Beck made me think about 'working' the guitar volumes, and nowadays I'm more all middle, and working the volumes as blends. It took a while to make it all natural to me, but I've gotten more adept, and don't think about it too much anymore.

I will roll the Neck tone to 0, and the Neck volume almost all the way off, and then add a little bit of that in there for some slide parts.

I was always more of a bridge pickup guy, so I tend to keep that and blend in a little bit more (or less) neck pickup accordingly, I gotta say I find P-90s really super responsive to volume changes.

I'm cool with my Tele controls though, I just found the 4 pot set up worked well for me in a band.

 

[jrblue]

Unless you actually use all four controls and the switch, you're stuck with bad compromises. I don't like the layout either, but I've learned to use it quickly. Modern (not 50s) wiring helps, because the controls don't interact and are more precise. Some like 50s wiring because the volume controls also give a particular tonal change when used, if you like that exact outcome. Personally, I find that a 5-way superswitch and one V and one T gives me a vastly more wide-ranging and easy control arrangement, but on a LP or SG, forget it.