How can Lambertrone Cremas be called PAFs? They seem way out of spec for a PAF

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by Golem, Aug 5, 2021.

  1. Golem

    Golem Tele-Holic

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    Neck Specs: 3.55k DCR, AlNiCo IV

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    That's insanely low output for a humbucker. So now I'm super curious to try one. But how can you market a pickup as a PAF when it's so far out of the range of specs for historical PAFs? Some will find me overly critical... but that's really far off of traditional specs. I say that as someone who is probably more open with the definition of what a PAF is than most.
     
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  2. mkdaws32

    mkdaws32 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    I with you. To me "PAF" means a certain design spec that results in a classic PAF humbucking tone and output. There were variances in early PAFs, I'm sure, but that is what it has come to mean to me, and I think, the guitar community in general. Those pickups don't meet the criteria for me.

    Maybe the original patent that was applied for by Gibson only specified the humbucking design (two adjacent RWRP coils in series) and not the magnets, number of winds, inductance or DC resistance? If that's the case, I guess they can get away with calling them PAFs, but given what we generally consider to be PAFs today, I agree this is misleading.
     
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  3. Dobbin

    Dobbin TDPRI Member

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    Some companies insist a PAF is a PAF if and only if it is built with materials and methods closest to authentic, original Gibsons.

    Some other companies, probably most notably DiMarzio, attempt to match the sound and response of a PAF with different technologies and techniques at their disposal. Ergo their specs might not match but the results can certainly be in PAF territory.
     
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  4. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Any maker can call their product anything they like.

    Always do your homework...like you've done.

    DCR is no guarantee of any tonal characteristics anyone may claim.
     
  5. loopfinding

    loopfinding Friend of Leo's

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    Well there is nothing in the patent about winds, wire gauge, magnet type, etc.

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US2896491A/en

    Practically all humbuckers are based on that patent. I think it’s okay to call it a PAF (or “our take on a PAF” or whatever) if you specify the construction differences from historical examples but probably not just PAF without any qualifier as it evokes a certain era of the pickup.

    personally if it’s in the general ballpark I don’t really care too much what they call it or what magnets or wire they use as long as it sounds good and has conservative output. PAFs were all over the place, cloning them is not an exact science and I don’t think it really makes sense to chase authenticity/nor does it guarantee good results when actually put into a guitar.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  6. Timbresmith1

    Timbresmith1 Tele-Holic

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    PAF has become marketing jargon.
     
  7. BB

    BB Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have not heard of Lambertone before this thread. I checked their web page and it say's "PAF-style" pickup that has single coil-ish properties. They look good, but waaaaay out of my price range!
     
  8. heffus

    heffus Tele-Holic

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  9. Golem

    Golem Tele-Holic

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    I can't really follow the argument that it's just marketing jargon with most builders. It's a reference to the pickups Seth Lover designed for Gibson. Some makers obsessively copy the originals (to the point of buying the wire makers, original winding machines, etc.) and some just copy the specs focusing just on the aspects most likely to affect the tone.

    Dimarzio takes a lot of liberties calling things PAF including trademarking the term.
    The sound demos above sounds alright, but not really anything like a PAF.
     
  10. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Holic

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    Perhaps it’s a different patent they’ve applied for. Like one where the bobbins are made of cheese.

    They never made a specific claim about what patent they are referring to. Maybe it’s an improvement on the Sansabelt trousers for all we know.
     
  11. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    The specs are off for a gibson paf but they're very close to a Gretsch filtertron (also a paf). I wonder what gauge wire Lambertone uses?
     
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  12. MickM

    MickM Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    I REALLY wish these demo dudes would plug into simple amp, NO effects or processing; kind of like a truer audio picture.
     
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  13. Drak

    Drak Tele-Afflicted

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    That tactic was not done by accident, and I consider the marketing decision behind it to be damn slimy shark-suit mentality.
    That demo artist has the chops to play it clean and show the product clearly.
    They chose not to do that, on purpose, to lure people in.
    Not to be honest and show their product cleanly, but to LURE people in.
    As in, deceitfully luring people in.

    When I hear a demo like that, I run away, not towards.
    If you have to cover up your product that heavily, or purposely pander and overblow your demo to a certain ilk...
    That sends me a message, ...and its not a good one.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Tele-Holic

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    That's what I was thinking. The magnets and size would be off. And the way they do filtertron covers is pricey but is important given the magnetic field (I'd have to dig up a thread here that discusses this if I wanted to prove that).
     
  15. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Ray Butts made the Filtertron for Gretsch at the request of Chet Atkins--about a year before Seth Lover's pickup. When Gibson discovered Butts/Gretsch had failed to apply for a patent, they jumped on it.

    The other curiosity about the label on the Gibson pickups is the patent number that appeared in 1965 and ran for 10 years: it was for a trapeze tailpiece...not a pickup. These pickups are known as T-tops because of a T-shaped mold mark on the bobbin top. We think this was Gibson's effort to throw copiers off the trail, rather than a simple goof by the print shop.
     
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  16. viking

    viking Friend of Leo's

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    LOL
    I knew about the patent , what amuses me , is that people get that worked up over a stupid set of pu´s , the ones mentioned here , or others....

    Hands up : How many knew that one of the "correct made PAF gurus " selling at really high prices for decades is actually completely tone deaf...... I know , I know , Leo didnt play guitar but still........

    How about the " local forum expert " on PAF forensics said to be extremely accurate with his highly expensive pu´s.....?

    Reading through old posts , it gets clear that he wasnt winding anything 2 years ago , another were asking questions about soldering pedals 18 months earlier....... hmmmmmm

    Not on this forum , but I have witnessed this on 2 other forums........People will believe anything.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  17. twangking

    twangking Tele-Afflicted

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    They sound mediocre in that demo. Hard pass.
     
  18. Golem

    Golem Tele-Holic

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    I went trying to hunt down a demo that wasn't going through a modeler. They all were. And as an aside, they seem to be marketing mostly to people who play worship music. It's not a genre I really know well except they do legitimately seem to use a lot of pedals to my ears. I don't want to defend Lambertone per se, but if you only send the pickups to people who play a certain way then you're going to get results that commensurate.

    I often like brighter pickups (e.g., Fralin Singles, Gretsch BT65) so I wonder if I would like this. But between calling it a PAF and having demos that aren't my cup of tea it's really hard to say.
     
  19. rigatele

    rigatele Tele-Afflicted

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    The Butts pickup was patented in 1957 - #2,892,371
     
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  20. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Tele-Afflicted

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    Doesn't DiMarzio now own the name "PAF?"
     
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