Hipshot install on Mex Standard 6-saddle bridge?

[fiveightandten]

Hey all. I want to pick up a Hipshot bender and i'd like to install it on my Mexican Standard Tele so i'm not drilling the body or bridge in a more expensive guitar.

I don't see any room to drill the back of the bridge above the intonation string. This may be a silly question, but how are you guys installing a bender on this bridge?

Just want to get my ducks in a row before ordering a bender. Thanks in advance!

-Nick

 

[thumbpick]

most times no need to drill..run the string over top...it should all anchor on the strap pin..sometimes this allignment is out a bit..you can move strap pin over a bit ...or you can make a groove in the hipshot strap pin hole.....if you find you have to drill the bridge, take it off and apart ..then into a vise

 

[J. Hayes]

Here's a couple of shots of my MIM Tele..........

with a HipShot B and G bender. You can't see it too well but I just took a file and added a couple of groves on the back of the bridge piece for the strings to go through. I don't like adding holes or nylon tubing or anything like that for a HipShot. I don't care for the string touching anything between the bender and the bridge. I also cut my G lever off and put it straight toward the neck and tighten it down so it doesn't move and it's always in th same place and not in the way when needed!..........JH in Va.

 

[Honga Man]

The pictures Mr. Hayes posted above shows the older (1997 and prior) MIM Standard toploader bridge. It that the bridge you have? I have one of those and it's ideal for a Hipshot due to the top-loader string holes and offset intonation screws.

But if you have a 1998 to current MIM Standard, you have a string-through-body bridge with big block saddles with intonation screws in the center. I don't think you can run the string up and over the top without it rubbing on the top of the rear bridge lip and/or the back of the block saddle.

I could be wrong but that's how it seems to me, having previously owned one.

My suggestion, if you have a string-through-body MIM Standard, is to buy a Fender vintage-style 3-saddle bridge, drill a hole in the back lip or that bridge or run the string over the top if you prefer. You might have to shim the neck if you choose the latter.

And I say a Fender bridge, as opposed to the pricier versions from Callaham, Glendale, and other vendors. The Fender plates are much cheaper. But any of these are a direct swap with your current bridge with no drilling required - assuming you have the '98 and later version, like the picture below.

The bridge on the right is what I suspect you have now. I'm suggesting you swap it for the bridge on the left.

Edited to add something I didn't think of earlier: Wilkinson makes a vintage-style bridge that is drilled for string-through and toploading and will bolt right on your '98 and later MIM Std just like the Fender version. This might be a good choice if you're going to have a Hipshot with multiple benders - B, G, Drop D, etc. since you won't have to drill and you'll know the holes will (should) be properly lined up from the factory. I've never tried one of these but Wilkinson seems to make good stuff and I'd trust the holes to be right.

Link to one of many vendors who sell this bridge: http://www.guitarfetish.com/Wilkinson-Compensated-Tele-Bridge-Brass-Saddles_p_873.html

Note holes in the rear lip of the bridge plate:

 

[helle_man]

Wilkinson makes a vintage-style bridge that is drilled for string-through and toploading and will bolt right on your '98 and later MIM Std just like the Fender version.

I have a few Wilkinson's like that. They're my new-favorite 3-way bridge for a Tele. The intonation is practically spot-on, you can string from the bottom or the top and you've got brass saddles to boot!

Sometimes you may want to drill the string hole a little higher than the predrilled holes for a less-severe string angle.

My 2¢
WR

 

[fiveightandten]

most times no need to drill..run the string over top...it should all anchor on the strap pin..sometimes this allignment is out a bit..you can move strap pin over a bit ...or you can make a groove in the hipshot strap pin hole.....if you find you have to drill the bridge, take it off and apart ..then into a vise

Thanks for the reply. It doesn't look like there would be anywhere near enough break angle over the saddle if I were to do that. No room to drill the bridge either. I think Honga Man nailed it. The guitar is a 2003.

with a HipShot B and G bender. You can't see it too well but I just took a file and added a couple of groves on the back of the bridge piece for the strings to go through. I don't like adding holes or nylon tubing or anything like that for a HipShot. I don't care for the string touching anything between the bender and the bridge. I also cut my G lever off and put it straight toward the neck and tighten it down so it doesn't move and it's always in th same place and not in the way when needed!..........JH in Va.

Thanks for the pics. If what's Honga Man is saying below is accurate, my bridge is different from yours. I think even with putting a slot in there, the break angle over the saddle wouldn't be enough to hold the string in place. I may just have to order a bender and see what things look like once it gets here. It's looking like I may need a new bridge.

The pictures Mr. Hayes posted above shows the older (1997 and prior) MIM Standard toploader bridge. It that the bridge you have? I have one of those and it's ideal for a Hipshot due to the top-loader string holes and offset intonation screws.

But if you have a 1998 to current MIM Standard, you have a string-through-body bridge with big block saddles with intonation screws in the center. I don't think you can run the string up and over the top without it rubbing on the top of the rear bridge lip and/or the back of the block saddle.

I could be wrong but that's how it seems to me, having previously owned one.

My suggestion, if you have a string-through-body MIM Standard, is to buy a Fender vintage-style 3-saddle bridge, drill a hole in the back lip or that bridge or run the string over the top if you prefer. You might have to shim the neck if you choose the latter.

And I say a Fender bridge, as opposed to the pricier versions from Callaham, Glendale, and other vendors. The Fender plates are much cheaper. But any of these are a direct swap with your current bridge with no drilling required - assuming you have the '98 and later version, like the picture below.

The bridge on the right is what I suspect you have now. I'm suggesting you swap it for the bridge on the left.

Edited to add something I didn't think of earlier: Wilkinson makes a vintage-style bridge that is drilled for string-through and toploading and will bolt right on your '98 and later MIM Std just like the Fender version. This might be a good choice if you're going to have a Hipshot with multiple benders - B, G, Drop D, etc. since you won't have to drill and you'll know the holes will (should) be properly lined up from the factory. I've never tried one of these but Wilkinson seems to make good stuff and I'd trust the holes to be right.

Link to one of many vendors who sell this bridge: http://www.guitarfetish.com/Wilkinson-Compensated-Tele-Bridge-Brass-Saddles_p_873.html

Note holes in the rear lip of the bridge plate:

Excellent info! Thanks very much for the reply. The guitar is a 2003, and it is string-through. I'm not sure how I feel about putting a vintage style bridge plate on there. They get in the way of my picking hand a bit at times. I like the idea of a 3-saddle compensated setup. I always liked the sound and feel of those. Something like the Callaham would be perfect. Though I picked this guitar up used for about $300 with the hardshell case. It's tough to justify spending 100% of the cost of the guitar on a bender setup. It would undercut my next cheapest guitar by quite a bit, but still.

Any recommendations for a compensated 3-saddle modern style bridge that would work with a Hipshot? Just looking for a flat plate really, not an ashtray.

Also, i've read through some threads, but what's the consensus on string slippage on vintage saddles that aren't notched. Is that going to be a problem on the B string loaded into the bender, or the high E? I have a very heavy right hand.

Thanks again for the help everyone.

-Nick

 

[Honga Man]

Any recommendations for a compensated 3-saddle modern style bridge that would work with a Hipshot? Just looking for a flat plate really, not an ashtray.

Remove your current bridge. You know the old saying about "measure twice and cut once"? Measure very carefully to make sure you have found the exact center point between your current intonation saddles - the High E and B string saddles - and mark the spot with a hammer and a nail punch.

I figure you probably know how to drill the correct size hole. Find the appropriate drill bit and drill a hole in the spot you have marked for an intonation screw for one saddle from a three-saddle set. Given that the rear lip of your bridge is father back than the rear lip on an ashtray bridge, you might want to take the intonation saddle that came with the vintage-style saddle you're going to buy (more on that later) to a hardware store and buy one that's the same size and thread pitch but is maybe 1/8" or 1/4" longer. This might not be necessary but is a possibility.

Install one two-string saddle from a vintage-style three-saddle set for your High E and B strings. Now you have four stock saddles: Low E, A, D, and G; and you have one vintage-style saddle for the B and High E strings.

If having a mixture of saddles bothers you, as it did me when I converted a Strat to a 3-saddle setup, replace them all in the same way. It's your decision.

Also, i've read through some threads, but what's the consensus on string slippage on vintage saddles that aren't notched. Is that going to be a problem on the B string loaded into the bender, or the high E? I have a very heavy right hand.

You might consider slotted saddles. Having the B string in a slot might keep it from wandering around on the saddle in the heat of battle. I thought the same thing and figured it wouldn't hurt to try them. I think I bought mine from AllParts but there are many sources on the web for Tele parts and I assume you can find a source. If not, let us know.

Here's the genius of this plan...not only will you not have the bridge sides of a vintage bridge that bother you, but you can run the B string through what used to be the B-string intonation screw hole for your bender. I think this will work nicely. I hope I'm right. Here is a picture to back up my claim. I can post more if you like, such as converting a Tele with 3 brass saddles to three slotted steel saddles but I bet you'll get the idea from just this one picture.

This is a cheap Squier Strat that I got from a craigslist deal that I installed three slotted steel Tele saddles on, using the same method I described above. Drill three holes exactly between the existing six holes and everything should fit..or just do the one if you want to keep four separate saddles for your four lowest strings.

Notice I didn't use teflon tubing or brake cable liner here to "insulate" the string from the theoretically sharp-edged hole in the bridge - I just ran the B string through what used to be the B-string saddle intonation screw hole. My current Tele has a bridge like J. Hayes' Tele above and I don't use any tubing for that either. I've never broken a string or had a problem with return-to-pitch on either guitar.

All of what I'm suggesting might sound crude, but it works!

image removed

 

[fiveightandten]

Remove your current bridge. You know the old saying about "measure twice and cut once"? Measure very carefully to make sure you have found the exact center point between your current intonation saddles - the High E and B string saddles - and mark the spot with a hammer and a nail punch.

I figure you probably know how to drill the correct size hole. Find the appropriate drill bit and drill a hole in the spot you have marked for an intonation screw for one saddle from a three-saddle set. Given that the rear lip of your bridge is father back than the rear lip on an ashtray bridge, you might want to take the intonation saddle that came with the vintage-style saddle you're going to buy (more on that later) to a hardware store and buy one that's the same size and thread pitch but is maybe 1/8" or 1/4" longer. This might not be necessary but is a possibility.

Install one two-string saddle from a vintage-style three-saddle set for your High E and B strings. Now you have four stock saddles: Low E, A, D, and G; and you have one vintage-style saddle for the B and High E strings.

If having a mixture of saddles bothers you, as it did me when I converted a Strat to a 3-saddle setup, replace them all in the same way. It's your decision.

You might consider slotted saddles. Having the B string in a slot might keep it from wandering around on the saddle in the heat of battle. I thought the same thing and figured it wouldn't hurt to try them. I think I bought mine from AllParts but there are many sources on the web for Tele parts and I assume you can find a source. If not, let us know.

Here's the genius of this plan...not only will you not have the bridge sides of a vintage bridge that bother you, but you can run the B string through what used to be the B-string intonation screw hole for your bender. I think this will work nicely. I hope I'm right. Here is a picture to back up my claim. I can post more if you like, such as converting a Tele with 3 brass saddles to three slotted steel saddles but I bet you'll get the idea from just this one picture.

This is a cheap Squier Strat that I got from a craigslist deal that I installed three slotted steel Tele saddles on, using the same method I described above. Drill three holes exactly between the existing six holes and everything should fit..or just do the one if you want to keep four separate saddles for your four lowest strings.

Notice I didn't use teflon tubing or brake cable liner here to "insulate" the string from the theoretically sharp-edged hole in the bridge - I just ran the B string through what used to be the B-string saddle intonation screw hole. My current Tele has a bridge like J. Hayes' Tele above and I don't use any tubing for that either. I've never broken a string or had a problem with return-to-pitch on either guitar.

All of what I'm suggesting might sound crude, but it works!

Great info. Thanks!

I have digital calipers, and a drill press. No worries there. But I think i'll order a bender and size things up before drilling any holes in the bridge. I'm assuming the plate is pretty cheap...did you have any problems with the chrome plating flaking off around the holes you drilled? Just curious.

That makes sense. Though i'd probably swap the whole bridge over to vintage saddles. I'm having a hard time finding a set that's compensated *and* slotted. Maybe i'd have to buy a flat compensated set and have a luthier slot them, though that's going to throw it off and sort of defeat the purpose of a compensated set a bit. I guess i'm looking for a set designed with the slots there and thus built into the equation, so to speak.

Did you have to enlarge the original intonation screw hole much to keep the string from rubbing on it, or you just don't care about the contact there?

Thanks again for the great info!

-Nick

P.S. Oh...one more thing, you have enough length in the B-string of a normal set to get it around the tuner post a few times? No need to be extra longs or anything like that?

 

[Honga Man]

I'm assuming the plate is pretty cheap

I haven't priced them but I bet they're cheap on eBay from all the guys who disassemble Fenders and sell them in pieces, and from the guys who take off the 6-saddle MIM Standard bridges to install the vintage 3-saddles ones. You might check the TDPRI classifieds, too.

did you have any problems with the chrome plating flaking off around the holes you drilled?

No, but I'm a home player these days and my guitars no longer get covered in sweat and beer and who knows what else as they used to when I gigged in weekend cover bands.

Did you have to enlarge the original intonation screw hole much to keep the string from rubbing on it, or you just don't care about the contact there?

Similar to what you've said about buying a Hipshot first and seeing how things line up before making decisions on what other changes you need to make, I just ran the string through the existing hole and figured I'd see how it worked before worrying about trying to insulate the string with tubing. Keeping in mind that I don't gig and therefore my guitars don't get the heavy usage that a professional or semi-pro musician would give them, I have had no problems and therefore haven't tried to change anything.

It seems to me the string will rub no matter how large the hole is. Some guys here suggest a notch instead of a hole so the string doesn't rub at all, but I haven't found the holes to be a problem, both on the Strat pictured above and on the Tele I currently play that has the same bridge as J. Hayes' guitar. Looking closely at J. Hayes' Tele above, I don't see any tubing there either.

you have enough length in the B-string of a normal set to get it around the tuner post a few times?

Yes. I use D'addario XL 9-42 and there is enough string to wrap around the post a few times.

Suggestion for further reading: do an advanced search for the word Hipshot in the subject line (not in messages or you'll get a million hits) in the B-Bender forum here. I read every post (and there are a lot!) about Hipshots before installing mine the first time. You'll find lots of good info and suggestions about installing Hipshots on guitars with various bridges.

 

[fiveightandten]

Sorry for the late reply. I ordered a bender and picked up a 3 barrel set as well. The bender came in today, so I slapped things together.

As you can see, it's not set up yet. But everything is more or less bolted together and functioning. I drilled the bridge to fully convert to the 3 barrel setup. I went with the graphtech compensated set, as they were the only slotted compensated saddles I saw around, and it seemed like they would be conducive to the bender sliding the B string over the saddle frequently.

I'm not impressed with the sound of them. I found them to deaden the strings noticeably. Though, for the B and high E, i'll deal with it, as the B string seems to be happy with that saddle. I may swap to brass at some point. But for now, i'm content with the one graphtech and 4 stock saddles.


First impressions on the bender:

Install was easy. Everything lined up nicely and fell into place with minimal hassle. It works as intended. I didn't drill the guitar for the extra stabilizer screws, as I want to make sure this is something I want to keep on there first. But, I think I will. Even with a large washer and the deep mounting screw nice and snug, it does shift a little when you get aggressive and do bending on some quick runs.

I've never even picked up a bender guitar before. I just loved the sound. I find it quite intuitive and easy to use. I have practice with the band tomorrow, so it'll be interesting to see how it incorporates into some of the things we do.

I ordered the "standard" model with the Drop D toggle. I did this knowing I likely wouldn't use it. But I was too lazy to pull it off before bolting the unit on. I think i'll yank it to get it out of the way.


Some notes on quirks and things you may not realize:
-The thumb screw that sets the pitch of the bend is very sensitive. Also, i've found that, like intonation, you have to kind of pick a setting that is a compromise for the area you play in. If you're bending open chords down around the first few frets and have the pitch set for that, it will not be dead on when you move way up to the 15th fret.

-I've also found that when I get aggressive with it, the thumb screw will migrate a little over time. I have to retune it like I would retune a string. I may try setting it based on the middle of the neck so most areas are pretty close (it would be dead on for key of E, which we use often), and dabbing some blue locktite on there to keep it in place. If the screw was designed with a conical tip, this issue would be eliminated. This is another option.

-Guess what happens when you put it in a case. Yes, the bender is now the highest part on the body of the guitar.


Overall...i'm happy with it so far. It's a TON of fun to play, and adds a whole new dimension to what you can do with the guitar. I'm not sure how deep i'll really get into altering my style. But I got it to mimic pedal steel type sounds for certain songs we write, and it does exactly that.


Thanks again for all the info. I hope this helps some people in the future.

 

[telex76]

Glad you are getting happy with it.

 

[jmiles]

"Some notes on quirks and things you may not realize:
-The thumb screw that sets the pitch of the bend is very sensitive. Also, i've found that, like intonation, you have to kind of pick a setting that is a compromise for the area you play in. If you're bending open chords down around the first few frets and have the pitch set for that, it will not be dead on when you move way up to the 15th fret. "

I have never, ever had any of those problems! If the thumbscrew is loose, try another screw, maybe even a nylon one. Or rub some violin rosin into the hole to "gum up" the threads. I very seldom have to adjust the tuning, so something's not right. Maybe inquire at Hipshot?
Having to tune it for the area of the neck you play in? I've never heard that one before! I certainly have never had to do that. Maybe try a set of 10s instead of 9s?
It just seems that something is not right! And now I'm curious!
Oh! And don't take off the D Tuner until you at least give it a chance.

 

[helle_man]

I agree with Jmiles totally.

BTW, the thumbscrew fine tuner is always too loose for me. I always put a dab of Lock-tite on it, then tune it with a tuner & let it set overnight. After that, I NEVER have to fine tune it for years, and when I do I just nudge it slightly with a pair of pliers.

Also, when tuning it with the Lock-tite, I always tune the B string Hipshot-activated note (C#) slightly flat, so as to match the strings around it which will also go slightly flat when the string is bent. Otherwise, it sounds outta tune to me.

Incidentally, I never have any intonation problems.

My 2¢
Will

 

[RollingBender]

I agree with Jmiles totally.

BTW, the thumbscrew fine tuner is always too loose for me. I always put a dab of Lock-tite on it, then tune it with a tuner & let it set overnight. After that, I NEVER have to fine tune it for years, and when I do I just nudge it slightly with a pair of pliers.

Also, when tuning it with the Lock-tite, I always tune the B string Hipshot-activated note (C#) slightly flat, so as to match the strings around it which will also go slightly flat when the string is bent. Otherwise, it sounds outta tune to me.

Incidentally, I never have any intonation problems.

My 2¢
Will

I think this bit of sage advice can be applied in many guitar applications. Guitars have strings, strings vibrate, vibrations loosen screws and fasteners. It seems odd to me to make the screws easy to manipulate rather than just locking them down some way once and for all. This is exactly the reason I recommend Locktite and don't provide easily adjustable (and therefore much larger) screws for my benders. Non-permanent Locktite solves a lot of problems.

 

[jmiles]

My Hipshot, from the mid-Eighties, has springs on the adjustment screws. I never need to fool with them. Stays in tune for years as long as I use the same strings. The springs pull the male threads of the screws up tight against the female threads in the lever.

 

[helle_man]

My Hipshot, from the mid-Eighties, has springs on the adjustment screws. I never need to fool with them. Stays in tune for years as long as I use the same strings. The springs pull the male threads of the screws up tight against the female threads in the lever.

I use gig bags, and the act of putting the guitar in & out of the bag moves volume & tone knobs, and especially the Hipshot thumbscrew. Locktite is the only thing that works for me.

Will

 

[fiveightandten]

Thanks for the replies guys. I thought about trying some blue loctite on the thumb screw. That's likely to fix that issue.

In terms of the intonation. I'm not sure how it would be dead accurate. Intonation of the guitar itself isn't. Fretted instruments are a compromise. I may be more picky about inconsistencies right now, as i'm using the guitar to record. It's not off by much. But as a for instance, I have a song where i'm bending down on the 2nd fret...then I go up and do some bending on the 15th fret.

It's not off enough to bother most people. But in a recording, where i'm checking notes with a tuner, it's definitely slightly off. If I loctite the thumb screw, I plan on setting it from the middle of the neck to be safe. But truth be told, it's quite accurate in all but the most extreme cases, as described above.

I come from a science background. I may be more picky about these kinds of thing than I really should be. I don't consider it a fault of the bender, but a consequence of a fretted instrument. Also, I think that as guitar players, we tend to use our fingers to compensate for slight pitch inaccuracies without even realizing it.

Anyways. The good news is, i'm very happy with the bender. It's opened up some new sounds for me, and just in time to integrate it into tracks before they're recorded and set in stone, so to speak. Being more rock influenced than country, it's not appropriate on everything we do. But the other band members are ecstatic about how it sounds and its already made its way into 3 tracks, seamlessly (have to know when to say when with a new toy, before I overdo it ). Definitely a worthwhile purchase. So much so, that i'd toying with the idea of adding another to one of my Gibsons.