Help with poor oil finish

[posttoastie]

I use Kiwi natural boot polish to shine protect my guitars and it works great. I even use it on my Gibson satin finish guitars. If I want a slightly yellowed finish I use the tan boot polish(works great on plain looking necks).

 

[Mark617]

For my final buff, I used an old pair of jeans. A tip from someone in here , sorry I forgot who. Granted I used Tru Oil. But the final finish came out great…in my humble opinion
Try cutting up an old pair
The guitar looks fantastic btw

 

[Beebe]

Glad it's working out for you. "High Build" to me sounds like it's meant to have a lot of coats, like varnish, and as opposed penetrating oil finishes like hard wax oils.

The instructions on the Crimson website seem a bit optimistic. They say:

"For best results apply 3 to 4 coats of finish with 2 to 4 hours of curing time in between."

2 to 4 hours isn't enough time for any drying oil I've ever worked with to cure.

They also say this which sounds better:

"Leave to cure for 5 to 10 minutes, or until sticky. Rub off the excess with a clean cloth and leave to cure completely before applying the next coat."

To cure completely I would give it at least a day.

For them to say it cures that fast, I would guess it has a lot of solvent, resins, and dryers. The resins might be hard as soon as the solvent evaporates, but the oil part will still need exposure to Oxygen for a while, even with the dryers.

I also find that the first few coats of drying oil will often want to leach back out of the pores as it dries, and requires wiping off a couple times a day.

...you actually don't want it to dry too fast because you might need to wipe some off in the morning before it hardens.

 

[Boreas]

Well, I've made some good progress today. I rubbed acetone over the top with a clean white cotten cloth, that picked up some of the oil. I then set about vigorous rubbing some 0000 steel wool over the surface to burnish it slowly but surely it began to even out.

I've got a bit more work to do, but this is a vast improvement - much more even and uniform stain sheen.
Will add a very thin layer or oil and probably repeat the process.


View attachment 1078361

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The PRE-finish treatment is often more important than the final finish itself. Knowing when, how and what procedure to use to stain, fill, and enhance the grain ON YOUR PIECE OF WOOD is critical to the final result. Only experience with many wood types and treatments can produce consistent results. Different wood blanks simply have different characteristics - just like any other living organism. Where they are cut from the trunk and the weather/water/ growth history of the tree itself comes into play. So in general, it is best to ask questions prior to starting the finish process on a chunk of wood. Otherwise, you are just experimenting and contributing to your own knowledge base. Not a bad thing at all, but can result in wasted time and materials if you are searching for a particular finish result.

 

[badscrew_projects]

it is messey but it is doing the job. Thanks for the tip!

Learned this from my own errors a while ago.

 

[schmee]

I need some advice please.
I am building a thinline tele(ish) - thread here

I have applied several coats of Crimsons high build guitar oil, but I'm really not happy with the finish on the maple top. (I should add, I have used this oil before on another guitar - ash body and it worked well).

It looks very poor when the light catches it at the right angle. These 2 images show the issue.

It looks very nice here (imo), soft sheen highlighting the figuring

View attachment 1078215

In the light you can see the finish is very uneven and unpleasant to look at, the whole top is like this.
It does feel very smooth to the touch however.

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The wood was sanded well, and the oil was applied in thin coats with 1200 grit paper as Crimson recommend. I have tried 2000 and 2500 grit paper with no success.

I am very tempted to just accept defeat and sand it all off and start again with something else.

Sand back to bare wood and reapply ?
Sand back with 800 or 1000 grit and try again ?
Polish it somehow ?

I wonder if any one has an ideas how best to proceed at this point to get and even finish?
Thank you

No issues, you are just 20 or 30 coats short of being done! No matter how fine you sand the bare wood any liquid will bring the grain up and makes it not smooth again.

 

[stratisfied]

The mistake that most people make with Danish oil is that they leave it on and get an uneven sheen to the wood where it penetrates unevenly the excess puddles and dries hard and somewhat glossy like yours did. With Danish oil, you wipe it on, let it penetrate and replenish it until the wood stays wet and no more can be absorbed. Then you wipe it completely off and let it dry. The Danish oil is supposed to be in the wood, not on it.

In effect, that's what you did, albet after the fact, by rewetting/dissolving the excess Danish oil on the surface with acetone and wiping it or sanding it off.

 

[telemnemonics]

Yeah oil finishes seem to be done when they are done and not before that.
I never sand with 1000 or 2000 grit between coats, just lightly with 600 and some coats get flattened with a blade scraper.

 

[middy]

You can use polyurethane or other mediums - lacquer is NOT perfect finish that all the paint snobs think that it is. It's highly flammable, toxic to the nervous system, yellows way to easily, dulls over time but beats using shellac which is bug spit and ****! It's literally from the excrement of a beetle larva and it's not durable and it too is toxic to breathe. Your best bet would be a wipe on polyurethane finish. If you go over your top with something else and still get this blemishing effect and it's visible from all angles then there is some type of contamination in the wood that the oil cannot penetrate.

Where are you getting this bs from? Shellac is non toxic and plenty durable.

 

[Solaris moon]

Where are you getting this bs from? Shellac is non toxic and plenty durable.

BS? What BS? You can't put this on anything that you want to leave outside in the weather (rain, snow, ice, etc) or put any real heavy wear or use. You can't put modern finish polish over it. Here - try this if you don't believe me: get some Meguiar's mirror glaze polish, rub it on, then see if it doesn't make it turn white and soften it. We have a buffet with is on it and you can't use anything with any type of oil or alcohol in it - not even silicone oil as it DISSOVLES the shellac! I tried this on an old classical guitar that was covered in it. The polish turned it white - this was because that guitar was made in Spain and it was very old and finished over with shellac. It dissolved and this was a CUSTOMER'S guitar! It was a woman that my mother worked with and she wanted her guitar to have the strings replaced and tuned, etc. So I polished and put new strings on it.

I had to use WAX to do this since the modern polish turned it white (softened) the surface because of the hydrocarbons in the polish itself. Of course it didn't ruin the guitar but I learned that this is not a durable finish as it wears so easily and is damaged and not easily repaired. Trust me - I wouldn't lie to you! Why would I? I'm only telling what I know from EXPERIENCE with this stuff and I would never use it on any of my projects. I used to make and restore furniture and none of the guys that I knew back in the day or even now would use it. It's an old obsolete and outdated medium whose time has come and long gone. There are much better and far more durable finishes available now. I'd sooner use polyurethane over a guitar, dresser, chair, table, armoir, or buffet than anything else available on the market in this modern day!

What they used way back when was done out of desperation. Like all things as time passes away and new technology comes along the older ways of doing things become obsolete as more people accept the new ones in their place. It's the same as we find better technology to replace the things that we used then. Remember Pong? It holds a special place in a lot of people's hearts but the Nintendo 64 blew that away! Now It's obsolete as the Commodore 64 is as well. You wouldn't want an old Apple computer from 1987 just because it's nostalgic - would you? It's basically a boat anchor! Better technology means better results and easier usage in the long run. There are so many types of automotive finishes in just acrylic and urethane alone that it boggles the mind! I believe in durability and if you're going to use something every day is must last. Sadly not all finishes are equal.

 

[ArtieFufkin]

A quick up date...

I have added a couple of VERY thin coats of oil during the week. I'm really happy with it now, it looks great (imo)
I am going to let it sit for another day or 2 and them move on with project.

 

[badscrew_projects]

That’ll do, you can send it to me now

 

[Sea Devil]

Oil finishes are quite forgiving that way. It really does look great now; can't wait to see the final result. Beautiful joinery and design on that neck, btw. Just perfect!

 

[epizootics]

Looking really good Artie!

BS? What BS? You can't put this on anything that you want to leave outside in the weather (rain, snow, ice, etc) or put any real heavy wear or use. You can't put modern finish polish over it. Here - try this if you don't believe me: get some Meguiar's mirror glaze polish, rub it on, then see if it doesn't make it turn white and soften it. We have a buffet with is on it and you can't use anything with any type of oil or alcohol in it - not even silicone oil as it DISSOVLES the shellac! I tried this on an old classical guitar that was covered in it. The polish turned it white - this was because that guitar was made in Spain and it was very old and finished over with shellac. It dissolved and this was a CUSTOMER'S guitar! It was a woman that my mother worked with and she wanted her guitar to have the strings replaced and tuned, etc. So I polished and put new strings on it.

Hmm. This is literally a shellac finish, polished with Meguiar's :

I don't usually finish guitars with shellac but this one was for a friend who is a classical guitar player and likes to stick with natural finished. I don't mind since I used to work in the furniture repair industry, where I spent hundreds of hours doing French polish. It is NOT A TOXIC FINISH IN ITSELF. Breathing DNA fumes, on the other hand, is bad for you over time. Well-ventilated areas, respirator, etc. And, yes, applied properly, it dries plenty hard and can be wet-sanded and polished with modern polishing products.

 

[Solaris moon]

Looking really good Artie!



Hmm. This is literally a shellac finish, polished with Meguiar's :

I don't usually finish guitars with shellac but this one was for a friend who is a classical guitar player and likes to stick with natural finished. I don't mind since I used to work in the furniture repair industry, where I spent hundreds of hours doing French polish. It is NOT A TOXIC FINISH IN ITSELF. Breathing DNA fumes, on the other hand, is bad for you over time. Well-ventilated areas, respirator, etc. And, yes, applied properly, it dries plenty hard and can be wet-sanded and polished with modern polishing products.

Well then it's not shellac! The guitar that I had was finished with it and no modern polish especially the number seven polish will make it look like this. It made it turn white and hazy. I had to use furniture wax and rub it to make the finish look like new again. Luckily the finish only crazed a little and didn't become soft. I didn't use much of it and it took very little time to get to soften. The more modern shellac may withstand such harsh polishes but guaranteed the old stuff won't!

 

[fretknot]

Firstly, that is a beautiful guitar!

I would not recommend sanding in this situation. The first thing that comes to mind is your comparison to Ash. They are characteristically different woods. Ash is an open-grain wood and absorbs finishes more deeply and uniformly. Maple is a closed grain wood and takes finishes differently. The oil finish ought to be easy to remove with solvents. What is left below the surface will probably not react adversely to a newly-applied finish.

 

[Silverface]

Oil "finishes" are a crapshoot.

Since wood density grain and color is inconsistent we LIKE it for finishes that show the grain.

Usually.

But sometimes it looks like crap. With 50+ years of guitar finishing experience and a 45+ career in the coatings/dye/stain solvent industry as a day job, I generally can guess what kind of results I will get from a specific piece.

But if I have the SLIGHTEST question I sand the crap out of the surfaces; apply a light coat of (usually) lacquer sanding sealer and sand it back to a "bare wood" look; and no mattwer if using an oil, a stain or a dye I have solvent on hand so I can wipe areas absorbing more color than expected to "pull" the color out of the wood.

Then I'll use tinted graiun filler, sand, additional sanding sealer, sand and a final application of several satin or low sheen lacquer (with light buffing on a vertical wheel).

That's about the most consistent "oil-finish" type look method. But even then, one out of ten or so ends up a nice sealed surface, ready for opaque coating.

If an oil stain/finish (usually a Danish Oil by another name) was applied to an unsealed surface the chance of sanding it back to bare wood are very slim, and likely to change the body dimensions.

 

[Silverface]

The oil finish ought to be easy to remove with solvents.

Absolutely not unless a sanding sealer was properly applied, and even then only the color "depth" can be reduced - not removed.

 

[epizootics]

Well then it's not shellac! The guitar that I had was finished with it and no modern polish especially the number seven polish will make it look like this. It made it turn white and hazy. I had to use furniture wax and rub it to make the finish look like new again. Luckily the finish only crazed a little and didn't become soft. I didn't use much of it and it took very little time to get to soften. The more modern shellac may withstand such harsh polishes but guaranteed the old stuff won't!

C'mon, mate. That's the same stuff my father used in the 70s, same as his father in the 50s and his grandfather in the 30s. That is shellac. Bought in the form of flakes, dissolved in alcohol, applied with a pad, etc. You have had one bad experience with a guitar you did not finish and what you didn't know for sure was actually shellac. Or, if it was, how it was applied, then stored, and so forth.

 

[fretknot]

Absolutely not unless a sanding sealer was properly applied, and even then only the color "depth" can be reduced - not removed.

I agree with you in cases where pigments are in use. The OP is using a natural oil finish, so color is not an issue.