Help with poor oil finish

[ArtieFufkin]

I need some advice please.
I am building a thinline tele(ish) - thread here

I have applied several coats of Crimsons high build guitar oil, but I'm really not happy with the finish on the maple top. (I should add, I have used this oil before on another guitar - ash body and it worked well).

It looks very poor when the light catches it at the right angle. These 2 images show the issue.

It looks very nice here (imo), soft sheen highlighting the figuring

In the light you can see the finish is very uneven and unpleasant to look at, the whole top is like this.
It does feel very smooth to the touch however.

The wood was sanded well, and the oil was applied in thin coats with 1200 grit paper as Crimson recommend. I have tried 2000 and 2500 grit paper with no success.

I am very tempted to just accept defeat and sand it all off and start again with something else.

Sand back to bare wood and reapply ?
Sand back with 800 or 1000 grit and try again ?
Polish it somehow ?

I wonder if any one has an ideas how best to proceed at this point to get and even finish?
Thank you

 

[Solaris moon]

What you're seeing is an effect in the light - this is not ash and therefore will not reflect light rays the same way. If you change the angle and this disappears then there's your answer. If not then there is some type of contamination in the wood surface. DON'T SAND!!!! What ever you do - DO NOT SAND YOUR TOP!!! Wipe acetone over it - this doesn't colour the wood and is fast drying. It is a hydrocarbon based alcohol the dissipates quickly. Use a rag that you can use with bare wood like a terry cloth towel with no dye in it. White terry cloth towels work the best. Do this in small amounts and not all at one time. This way you can remove the oil and not get a sticky mess. Then once the oil is gone try rubbing it with a clean terry cloth towel (white) so that you can see if the original wood colour comes back. Test on it in a small area then let it dry. If the same happens clean it again and seal with lacquer or some other finish - that oil most likely is having an effect that is causing uneveness in the wood.

 

[ArtieFufkin]

Hi, thank you for the info, message received - do NOT sand it. It is a light effect for sure.
So the idea is to lift the oil out of the wood, I have some acetone in the garage.

 

[VintageSG]

Acetone or denatured alcohol as a wipe to start with, then get a polishing bonnet and a random orbital sander and work it dry, with gentle, even pressure all over the top.
If you don't have a random orbit sander, an old T shirt wrapped around a clean car washing sponge will do, just moderate the elbow grease. The idea is to lightly burnish the top..
Time, patience and many mugs of tea/coffee breaks will get you there.
You may need to repeat or even apply a light oil coat and repeat, but don't sand. Burnishing the oil into the wood gives a better finish.

 

[Solaris moon]

If this disappears at a different angle under the light then it's simply a weird anomaly in the grain and it does happen with maple no matter what finish is on it. See the problem may also be the that the grain is too smooth for the oil to penetrate evenly. I know that sounds stupid but it's true. The same with paint. It needs a bite to adhere to. 600 grit is what I use for all paint finishes. I use 400 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper to smooth the wood before prep so that it will bite on to it and leave a smooth finish once applied in several layers.

 

[ArtieFufkin]

The

a weird anomaly in the grain and it does happen with maple no matter what finish is on it.

Yes, last night I put some oil on an off cut and I have the same issue on there this morning.

This is the first time I've worked with a maple top so very much a learning curve. The top was sanded to 320 - to make sure the surface wasn't too smooth as you say.

Its a shame because the Sapele back and sides look great.

 

[ArtieFufkin]

Acetone or denatured alcohol as a wipe to start with, then get a polishing bonnet and a random orbital sander and work it dry, with gentle, even pressure all over the top.
If you don't have a random orbit sander, an old T shirt wrapped around a clean car washing sponge will do, just moderate the elbow grease. The idea is to lightly burnish the top..
Time, patience and many mugs of tea/coffee breaks will get you there.
You may need to repeat or even apply a light oil coat and repeat, but don't sand. Burnishing the oil into the wood gives a better finish.

I'll try this on an offcut, I have an orbital DA car polisher and some soft pads to try.

 

[ArtieFufkin]

Are there any other oil / liquid finishes that I'm likely to have more success with on maple ?

(I have spray painted guitars before with Nitro rattle cans and got superb results, but I'd have to wait for warmer dryer weather - and I don't really want to go down that route this time.)

 

[badscrew_projects]

My experience with figured maple and oil: the oil will penetrate unevenly in the wood.
The process I ended up with if I see the unevenness like this one:
I knock down the shiny buildup with steel wool then reapply a thin coat of oil. When dry if it’s uneven still - repeat steel wool and new coat. Eventually, you end up with more and more even surface.
It’s a lot of work but it works.

 

[Solaris moon]

You can use polyurethane or other mediums - lacquer is NOT perfect finish that all the paint snobs think that it is. It's highly flammable, toxic to the nervous system, yellows way to easily, dulls over time but beats using shellac which is bug spit and ****! It's literally from the excrement of a beetle larva and it's not durable and it too is toxic to breathe. Your best bet would be a wipe on polyurethane finish. If you go over your top with something else and still get this blemishing effect and it's visible from all angles then there is some type of contamination in the wood that the oil cannot penetrate.

 

[JohnnyThul]

It looks to me, as if more coats would be needed and a little in between fine sanding.
The unevenness imho is a sign that the oil hasn't penetrated the maple equally.
As you didn't use any stain, it's pretty easy, I'd say, just use some fine grit sandpaper (1000 or up) and wet sand in some oil. Then add a few coats, maybe 2 or 3. After that, I'd polish the finish with micro mesh. Depending on the surface you want to have, gloss, or satin, you may need to go up to 12.000 and then buff a little.

For gloss, i polish up to 12.000 grit, then blend the oil with mineral spirits (1:1) and give the surface a wipe down, then leave it dry.

Worked with Truoil and Danish Oil for me.

I also used oil on ash and maple for my last built, and I'd say, even if ash is far more porous than maple, the build up of the oil finish was easier, than in maple.

What you can do as well is sanding the surface with a fine grit, and then apply a poly finish of your choice. I did that with Truoil and Minwax wipe on poly, and it worked very well.
If you want to go that route, I highly suggest testing the bond of the finishes with the oil you use on a scrap piece.

 

[badscrew_projects]

Same thing I’ve learned: big pore woods like ash and mahogany somehow require less oil coats.

You don’t expect maple to be as spongy as it is to oil finishes.

 

[Peegoo]

Most all products sold as "oil" finishes are not oils in the true sense of the word. They are high-solvent formulations that contain driers and solids (usually polyurethane) and harden in the wood like Danish oil or on the wood like a wipe-on poly/linseed (Tru Oil, etc.). They dry.

If that were my project I'd scuff sand lightly with 320 and then shoot two or three light coats of clear satin poly.

 

[badscrew_projects]

Yes, maybe the only real oils sold are pure or boiled lineseed. And you need additives for it to actually harden in less than one year.

 

[ArtieFufkin]

Well, I've made some good progress today. I rubbed acetone over the top with a clean white cotten cloth, that picked up some of the oil. I then set about vigorous rubbing some 0000 steel wool over the surface to burnish it slowly but surely it began to even out.

I've got a bit more work to do, but this is a vast improvement - much more even and uniform stain sheen.
Will add a very thin layer or oil and probably repeat the process.

 

[badscrew_projects]

Steel wool is messy but often works very well

 

[badscrew_projects]

Also, that's a beautiful guitar in the making you have here

 

[ArtieFufkin]

Steel wool is messy but often works very well

it is messey but it is doing the job. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Short on cash]

I don't know about your problem but I gotta' say that is one beautiful guitar !

 

[ArtieFufkin]

I put some a couple of thin coast of oil on the back of the neck, no issues there.