Help me think this through - Which Marshall Origin combo?

[SixStringSlinger]

I'm looking to sell my Egnater Tweaker to help fund a used Marshall Origin combo (some good deals nearby so selling the Tweaker will get me most of the way there). But I could use some help deciding between the 20 and the 50.

First of all, obviously I'll play through whatever I'm after first. But in terms of sound, features and price I'm 90% sure it's a Marhsall Origin for me, and in terms of size, simplicity etc. it's going to be a combo. Also, I use a variety of different guitars but for the most part leave the amp set where I like it and use the guitar controls to manipulate from there. I use a Strat when I want a Strat sound and an LP when I want an LP, and I'm not afraid of my guitars' volume and tone controls. The most tweaking I tend to do on the map side is set things to the room I'm in (mostly in terms of volume/gain). On an Origin I imagine the tilt control may also see some regular action, more than the other EQ controls.

In terms of tone, I tend to set things so that the guitar on full gets decently crunchy (again, obviously something like an LP will get mores than a Strat or Tele), and use my guitar volume controls to clean things up from there. When I want more dirt I use pedals, and typically to add gain rather than to push the amp more.

Right now I'm leaning toward the 50. It gets louder on full power, which I probably won't take advantage of much, but it'd be nice to have it there. I don't play with other people much these days but it's something I'd like to get back into, and it'd be nice to keep up with a drummer without my tone getting dirtier than I'd like. I can always dial it back, but I can't add what's not already there. Also, the power scaling options (50w-10w-5w) seems to be a more usable range than the 20's 20w-3w-0.5w, especially given that I don't want to run the amp particularly dirty on its own. But, I could be wrong about this.

As for reasons to choose the 20, it's a little smaller, easier to find cheaper, and I could be wrong about the power scaling options (maybe the 20's will be more useful to me than the 50's). Also, perhaps the 20 is enough to keep up with a band. MY Tweaker is (I believe) a 15w and it does a reasonably good job there.

So given the above, would you think the 20 or the 50 will suit me better. And yes, I will play it first.

 

[Axis29]

I have a 20. I didn't buy it for gigging, so much. But, I wanted an amp I could use when I drove across the Country. Something to have with me in the hotel room, if I got lucky and found a jam nearby, I would use it there as well... Of course, I bought the amp, play it at home, used it gigging, but when I drove across the Country, it stayed in the car the whole time. LOL. Oh shucks, I got a Marshall outta the deal!

When I tried the 20 and 50 initially, I knew the lower wattage would work for my situation. But, I did like the bigger sound of the 50... More watts, bigger iron, better bass response (not that the 20 really needs any help, it sounds great to me). But, it's not wildly different... It's just how much headroom you want.

The 20 vs 50 watt difference isn't much of a big deal if you have access to a PA. Simply run the D/I Out to the PA and you can be as loud as you want to be. I like the IR they included, I think it sounds great. So, it worked for me on the few gigs I used it on (Pre-Covid, of course).

I will say that I don't use the .5 watt setting that often... But, I usually practice through an 80 watt tweed Twin at home. So, don't take my volume requirements as what most guys can get away with!

BUT, it has come in handy a few times for quiet play at home.... The 3 w setting gets a lot of playtime at home. It is a nice balance between tone retention and volume control. 1/2 watt gets a little thin and loses bass response (Mostly because the speaker barely moves at that power level).

5 watts is still loud. It works great at a jam with a few buds (if they know how to control their volumes). You won't have much headroom (playing with others, at home by yourself, it's fine). But, that's as quiet as it's going... If you want dirt out of the amp, you're probably gettin' the stink eye from the old lady!

The biggest difference (other than general power available) is the biasing. The 50 is Adjustable-Fixed and the 20 is Cathode. Changes the feel at the front of the note a little bit. The other difference is the 10 vs. 12. I have always liked 10" speakers for guitar. But, 12's are great too.... If you like a little tighter, punchier attack from your speaker, it's 10's.

Neither the 20 or the 50 is a quiet amp if you are trying to get all your gain from the amp. They are Master Volume amps, but they still need some air pushing those speakers to give up the Rock and Roll levels of juice. The cleans, and slightly hairy tones are beautiful. I love them... very JTM45-ish. But, fi you want to sound like Angus, it';s still gonna be a bit loud for the bedroom.

Someday I'll own a 50 watt Marshall... I like the 50 watt Origin enough that it might be the one. But, I am not even remotely disappointed in my choice of the Origin 20 Combo!

 

[SixStringSlinger]

I have a 20. I didn't buy it for gigging, so much. But, I wanted an amp I could use when I drove across the Country. Something to have with me in the hotel room, if I got lucky and found a jam nearby, I would use it there as well... Of course, I bought the amp, play it at home, used it gigging, but when I drove across the Country, it stayed in the car the whole time. LOL. Oh shucks, I got a Marshall outta the deal!

When I tried the 20 and 50 initially, I knew the lower wattage would work for my situation. But, I did like the bigger sound of the 50... More watts, bigger iron, better bass response (not that the 20 really needs any help, it sounds great to me). But, it's not wildly different... It's just how much headroom you want.

The 20 vs 50 watt difference isn't much of a big deal if you have access to a PA. Simply run the D/I Out to the PA and you can be as loud as you want to be. I like the IR they included, I think it sounds great. So, it worked for me on the few gigs I used it on (Pre-Covid, of course).

I will say that I don't use the .5 watt setting that often... But, I usually practice through an 80 watt tweed Twin at home. So, don't take my volume requirements as what most guys can get away with!

BUT, it has come in handy a few times for quiet play at home.... The 3 w setting gets a lot of playtime at home. It is a nice balance between tone retention and volume control. 1/2 watt gets a little thin and loses bass response (Mostly because the speaker barely moves at that power level).

5 watts is still loud. It works great at a jam with a few buds (if they know how to control their volumes). You won't have much headroom (playing with others, at home by yourself, it's fine). But, that's as quiet as it's going... If you want dirt out of the amp, you're probably gettin' the stink eye from the old lady!

The biggest difference (other than general power available) is the biasing. The 50 is Adjustable-Fixed and the 20 is Cathode. Changes the feel at the front of the note a little bit. The other difference is the 10 vs. 12. I have always liked 10" speakers for guitar. But, 12's are great too.... If you like a little tighter, punchier attack from your speaker, it's 10's.

Neither the 20 or the 50 is a quiet amp if you are trying to get all your gain from the amp. They are Master Volume amps, but they still need some air pushing those speakers to give up the Rock and Roll levels of juice. The cleans, and slightly hairy tones are beautiful. I love them... very JTM45-ish. But, fi you want to sound like Angus, it';s still gonna be a bit loud for the bedroom.

Someday I'll own a 50 watt Marshall... I like the 50 watt Origin enough that it might be the one. But, I am not even remotely disappointed in my choice of the Origin 20 Combo!

Thanks for this. I'm definitely not looking to get much gain from this amp. For the most part it's either mild amp hair or else a distortion pedal doing a lot of work.

I guess my main question is about headroom, as you mentioned. Lots of people say "The 50 is really loud" but they often mean "You have to get it really loud for it to distort". But that can be true and still be just fine for me since I'm not trying to get it to distort much.

Still, even though the 50 still sounds like the better option to get the tone I want at different volumes, it sounds like the 20 isn't entirely out of the question yet.

 

[KC]

What he said up there. The 20 is looser, saggier, easier to drive. The .5 watt setting changes the tone & feel of the amp, too much for me, but the 3 and 20 watt settings are good sounding. I have gigged the 20 a fair amount and it works for playing blues / r&b in any room up to a medium bar.

The 50 is louder, stiffer, much bigger feeling in the low end. the 5 watt setting is completely usable and the sounds scales pretty perfectly as you go to the higher power settings. I'm using the head version through a nice Avatar 1x12 cabinet with a Fane M65 in it and this setup sounds huge. I do think the size and solidity of the cabinet make a difference here, especially in the low end. Your mileage may be different with the combo.

 

[Les H]

I have been considering this amp myself just recently and without any thought I would choose the 50.

I know me and if I would choose the 20 it would be an impulse buy it wouldn't take long to wish I would have got the 50 instead especially if I liked the amp. I don't see myself wishing I got the 20 instead of the 50.

I still gig though. Now if they had a 30 watt I would be struggling with that decision.

 

[Marc Morfei]

I have a 20 and it is plenty loud. Most people here usually strongly recommend people to get bigger amps, but personally I don't see the need. If you get a bigger amp than you need it is heavier, more expensive, and you never get to crank them up. But, whatever. Some guys think it is impossible to gig with less than 50 watts, so for people like that the 50 would be the way to go.

 

[gridlock]

I own an Origin 50 Combo. I am super happy with it. I bought it at an annual close-out sale at a local music store. I got it for 1/2 price off retail as a floor model. I still would be happy with the amp, even if I paid full price.

I went with the 50 watt because of the bigger iron and more bass/bottom end. I also wanted a 12” speaker (not sure what speaker is in the 20 watt combo). The amp sounds great with and without pedals.

The power reduction works great, better than some much more expensive amps that I’ve owned with similar power reduction features. I believe that the 20 watt amp drops down to 1 watt while the 50 watt only drops to down to 5 watts.

The 1 watt feature would be nice to have on the 50 watt amp but the 5 watt power option still works really well at controlling volume while retaining tone.

 

[Dacious]

I have a 20 I've been using for gigs in big and small places. My buddy has a 50 for his recording studio. They both sound very similar at low volume on full power. For gigging I'm using both gain and master set around noon on the 20. It's got plenty heaps headroom with that slight jtm grind.

I bought them both to try out and maybe flip and he likes the 50, I like the 20 so I'm keeping it.

Played a bar full of 40-50 people Saturday - DI into mixer for foldback but no FOH. Sounded great, the stock speaker is broken in and it's excellent.

The 50 is mostly way too much amp. With a drummer - you won't get above 3 in most circumstances. It also sounds great through its stock speaker. They're both light amps and very compact. A Vox AC15 is massive compared to both and 10-15lb heavier.

I used the 50 for rehearsal last week and was wishing I had the 20. The 20 is easier to balance for volume. It's easier to get a nice 'singing' feel going on it. Sounds great for classic rock by itself, and it's a distortion pedal off modern. My M13 sounds great with it. Haven't had to tweak anything much.

The effects loop is switchable too but I haven't used it. Takes pedals great. Boost is a real winner.

The Tilt feature is a winner, and makes the amp very flexible - guitar too bright, turn it hard left. Too dull, turn it hard right. Or mix to taste. Much better than a bright switch or hi/lo inputs.

Power reduction - it's nice for drummerless practice but even 0.5 watt on the 20 is too loud for realistic home practice without soundproofing unless you have understanding spouse/neighbours. That V-type is a 100db speaker....

 

[Guitarteach]

50, it will sound ‘bigger’.

 

[middy]

I have the SV20c and it is brutally loud and plenty deep on the 20 watt setting. I have to use an attenuator even on the 5 watt setting to avoid hurting my ears at overdrive volumes.

At loud rock drummer volumes, it’s easy to dial in a nice edge of breakup tone. If you need it to be clean and really loud, try the 50 and add extension cabs if necessary.

The 20 is nice because you’ll never need to have it biased, just drop in a new matched set of power tubes. It’s more than enough power for home use.

 

[ce24]

I have a 20 head and love it.

 

[MilwMark]

I think the 20 is the inherently warmer and the 50 a bit more shrill.

I prefer the 20c despite not liking single 10 combos generally.

Both are very clean amps IMO.

 

[redchapterjubilee]

I have a 20 and I play drums in a band with a guy who has a 50. to get the 20 where I like it (edge of breakup) it wasn’t loud enough for my band. So I use it at home for recording into a RLIR and for noodling into a Texas heat loaded 1x12 on the lowest setting. Still sounds good that low for me but I know the speaker helps with some girth. The guy with the 50 uses it as a pedal platform and is plenty loud. He runs it with master low and the gain up, the opposite of how I run the 20 (master and gain high). He’s plenty loud in a four piece band setting.

 

[middy]

I have a 20 and I play drums in a band with a guy who has a 50. to get the 20 where I like it (edge of breakup) it wasn’t loud enough for my band. So I use it at home for recording into a RLIR and for noodling into a Texas heat loaded 1x12 on the lowest setting. Still sounds good that low for me but I know the speaker helps with some girth. The guy with the 50 uses it as a pedal platform and is plenty loud. He runs it with master low and the gain up, the opposite of how I run the 20 (master and gain high). He’s plenty loud in a four piece band setting.

It wasn’t loud enough with the master all the way up? That’s surprising to me considering how loud my SV20 is.

 

[Axis29]

Going up against a 50 watt amp and wanting to be at the edge of breakup? It doesn't surprise me at all.

I would bet you could crank the 20 up enough to be heard, @redchapterjubilee, but there IS a huge leap between a bit of headroom left and just 'being heard'.

It really depend son the band, and who you're playing with. Twenty some years ago I was in a band. We had a drummer, who used an electronic drum kit. It sounded great, he was comfy with it, so I was super happy. My Deluxe Reverb sounded great. That drummer moved out here to California, and we got a new guy... His hero was Keith Moon. He beat those drums like the had molested him as a child. At practice I was fine... Then we did a gig and I couldn't hear myself on stage... At all.

The Deluxe Reverb got sold off and i discovered the true joy of 6l6 tubes! Never looked back and I only take smaller amps to jams... The band I'm in now has a sax. No way my 20 will cut through that with any headroom left.... But, the 20 has the D/I Out and I am not afraid to use it! So, honestly, the 20 can do it... With a bit of step up from the PA.

 

[AJBaker]

I like the way you steer the amp from the guitar with your controls. In my opinion, that's the way an electric is meant to be played to get the most interesting sounds.

Based on my limited experience, you'd probably be ok with either, but the result would be different.

Wth the 20, you'll be distorted at band volumes, and you might struggle to be heard, depending on the band and how you're miked up. Or, for you the 20 might be too much, it's hard to say.

With the 50 you'll have more headroom and more space to breathe with your amp. If you run it the way I do, the amp's volume will be rather loud, but that doesn't matter since you can just turn down on the guitar.

Not very helpful, I'm afraid...

 

[redchapterjubilee]

It wasn’t loud enough with the master all the way up? That’s surprising to me considering how loud my SV20 is.

If I wanted it breaking up then yes. If I wanted it to stay cleanish, no. That's with two 100dB+ 12" speakers too. I did not attempt to work backwards with it though, meaning pull volume for clean rather than building up from clean.

 

[Jakedog]

I gigged a 20 in a four piece band for quite a while. I liked it a lot. With a 1x12 ext cab it was plenty for anything. Even by itself it was fine. When I got some other amps and wasn’t using it, I sold it to my band mate. He plays it every gig. Sounds great with his Gretsches.

 

[Lawdawg]

I got the 20 last year and love it. At its full 20 watts it has more headroom than you would expect from a Marshall 20 watt amp. I suspect it's due to the JTM-ish voicing. The 3 watt setting is totally useable and still fairly loud. The low watt setting is just ok, but does let you get the amp crunchy at fairly low volumes.

I originally wanted to get the 50 but after thinking more about it, the 20 was the better choice. I already have a Twin Reverb and a Hayseed 30 if I want to peel the paint off the wall, and just don't need another big combo. Make no mistake, the 20 is still a loud amp. Unless you really see a need to play loud and clean with a band, I think the 20 will be a great choice.

 

[SixStringSlinger]

Thanks for all the replies so far. You've definitely got me thinking of the 20 at least as much as the 50.

I do want the amp to stay "clean" at the loudest I use it, but not pristine clean. Mostly clean, a little hair, edge of overdrive, however you want to think about it. Like, an AC/DC-like rhythm tone is probably the most dirt I'd want from the amp itself, with the guitar full-up. Anything else would have a pedal assist. And honestly, even that would be with a humbucker-equipped guitar. I'd want my Tele or Strat to be more Tom Petty/Mike Campbell-ish.

Any idea what I can expect in terms of different response in switching form the 15w Tweaker to the 20w Origin? The higher wattage leads me to expect cleaner tone from the Origin at higher volumes than the Tweaker, but the Origin has a 10" speaker while the Tweaker has a 12". Not sure how/of that changes things.

I like the way you steer the amp from the guitar with your controls. In my opinion, that's the way an electric is meant to be played to get the most interesting sounds.

My general theory on this is that the further down your signal chain something is, the less you touch it. So guitars are constantly adjusted (via knob-turning or something as simple as how you physically manipulate it), pedals are turned on or off during a song and adjusted as needed between songs, and amps (once they're dialed into the room/situation) are turned on when you start and off when you're done.