Help figuring out how to get this color

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by timewaster1700, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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    I am looking into building a partscaster and am trying to decide on finish colors for a Tele. I saw this awesome and unique Relic Custom Shop tele in guitarcenter the other day. Supposedly this is "aged taos turquoise" but it looks way more blue than that color. Seems most of the taos turquoise pictures I see are more green except for Warmoth's youtube video that compares it to Sonic and Daphne blue where it looks much closer to this.

    I guess what I'm wondering is if I wanted to get this custom color made how would I go about doing it and are there places that can look at a picture and get an approximate color?

    I attached a couple pics. The first one of it on the wall is most representative of what it feels like in person. The second was taken in a shadow so appears darker.
     

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  2. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    Usually you'll get folks to say Duplicolor Color match products for something like this.

    You could probably mix it yourself if you don't mind a little trial and error. In fact you could probably get that color in a few different mediums. Obviously a blue pigment (stewmac color tone or mixol) in clear lacquer would be a good base to start, you'd likely have to tint (stew mac or transtint) it towards that shade you have in the pictures. This would likely take a few test applications. You could also get this color in Milk Paint again I'd use Blue as the base and then tint to get the right shade. (General Finishes Milk Paint would be excellent for this, I've used it this way.) With milk paint you can layer than stuff and get very interesting wear patterns and highlights from layering.
    You can get kind of unique with it to. Paint it with the milk paint blue, then using a tinted shader (tinted clear lacquer) over top to shift the color to the one pictured.
     
  3. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted

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    I did a quick eBay search and Tracey’s sells it in a can
    Then there is most likely a light amber clear over that to give you that greenish hue.
     
  4. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    There are auto finish supply shops that match custom colors in bulk (quarts & gallons) of acrylic lacquer. It's done by scanning a picture into a computer. They haven't used eye-matching in paint stores in years.

    Deep colors are usually expensive, though.

    Do you have the proper spray equipment to apply it (along with primer/sealer and clear coats) with?
     
  5. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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  6. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    Did you get to the 2nd page of that link you have in your post? It says because the color is so old, they cannot guarantee a perfect match...interesting... it still might be the way to go if they mix those colors for rattle can. It all sounds as toxic as the SW & Behlens lacquers commonly used around here make sure you get the proper protection.
     
  7. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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    Good catch I didn't see that. I'm starting to think maybe Taos Turquoise from Gracey's is close enough. Only thing that makes me nervous is some pictures of taos turquoise online appear green (not what I'm going for). Whatever I decide to do I plan to buy a respirator. I've had too many health issues to mess around. I appreciate your warning
     
  8. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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    Ok I'm going to revive this thread a bit with a slightly different question. What are some other good sources for spray lacquers other than:
    -Reranch (I keep hearing these are the best and easiest to use but they have a limited color palette and not the color I'm looking for)
    -Gracey's (A little better color selection but apparently there are splatter issues? and they don't really have the color I'm trying to get)
    -Dupli-color (Its hard to figure out what there entire color line is but so far between looking on the web and in two auto parts stores I haven't been able to find the blue I want. I basically want their Ford Blue DE1601 0-26916-91601-3 color but it appears to be an engine paint only which I've heard is not good on guitar bodies due to all the additives)

    Where else can I get lacquer spray can colors (acrylic or nitro)? Thanks
     
  9. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Is that Lake Placid Blue? I like that color.

    lpb.jpg
     
  10. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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    It’s notlake placid because it’s not metallic but it looks kind of similar. Closest color I can find is Taos turquoise but most of the pictures I find of taos turquoise are much brighter and closer to daphne blue.
     
  11. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Mohawk has a few. That's about it. Those who use custom colors have generally moved beyond "beginner level" aerosols and have purchased a high-quality HVLP turbine unit for application.
     
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  12. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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  13. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Tele-Afflicted

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    Dan Erlewine's book on guitar finishing has some color chips with the mixing recipe using Colortone stains. They are typically two color blends and he gives the proportions of each color to get the results on the chip. Hold the guitar up to the chip and see what looks right.

    He also gives a recipe for the metallic lake placid blue and simpler non metallic versions.

    Never tried either, don't know it it will work but you might want to check it out.
     
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  14. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Very few places in colors. Custom colors normally need to be purchased in bulk and applied with HVLP (preferably) or conventional spray equipment.

    I would never suggest purchasing custom colors in less than pint quantities - that that's if you know what you're doing with GOD spray equipment. That will allow enough to complete a full practice application of the system (sealers, fillers, colors, clears and final buffing) on scrap wood BEFORE starting on the actual guitar parts.

    Most major metro areas have auto paint stores that provide the same service. It's all done by computer with rare "eye (hand) matching of troublesome colors. Prices of roughly $100-150/pint for material PLUS labor charges for matching are about what I've seen for similar acrylic lacquer auto finishes.

    Erlewine's book is based around products that Stewart-MacDonald sells exclusively - "Colortone" (most of his books include extensive references to Stewart MacDonald products. IMO they are rather thinly veiled advertising. Good writing, but many of the product references and associated methods//time schedules are VERY proprietary).

    Please note that Colortone's - like Deft lacquers - are very slow dry products that contain naphtha/mineral spirits/petroleum distillate. They are significantly different in dry time from ReRanch, Mohawk, Behlens, Rust-Oleum, Valspar, Sherwin Williams, automotive acrylic lacquers and other conventional lacquer products.

    The extended recoat times and extremely long lead times before any sanding (even runs) or buffing can be done are typical of products that are a cross between lacquers and enamels. I don't recommend using those methods or time schedules except with the specific products Stewmac sells.
     
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  15. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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    @Silverface wow thanks so much for the lengthy response. Would the auto spray cans produce a decent finish? The link I posted charges no extra fee for a computer scan match and I’d be ok with ballpark close. I was thinking maybe I could do auto lacquer and then a Reranch clearcoat nitro after testing compatibility. I bought a small piece of alder from the hardware store. Do you think this would be a sufficient test piece or do I need something shaped like a guitar to really get good practice in?

    Also have you ever done a finish going for a NOS (new old stock) style look?
     
  16. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Step 1 - make sure you have a clean, well-ventilated, organized spray area (with no open flames, pilot lights etc) and that the temperature and humidity are acceptable for the materials you're going to use. It's also a good idea to test the piece you're going to coat with an electronic moisture meter ($15-25). If the moisture content is over 11% it's not dry enough for coating (I don't coat anything that reads over 8%).

    Step 2 - have a NIOSH-approved cartridge type respirator with the right cartridge(s) and prefilters for lacquer. Dust masks, cloth tied across your nose/mouth and such are 100% useless against lacquer fumes! Preferably buy one from a contractor paint store that can fit it properly. Also wear full-coverage goggles.

    Auto lacquer is acrylic lacquer and is perfectly compatible with nitrocellulose. There are even blends of the two. The solvents are what melt the resin systems into each other creating one contiguous coat of "lacquer". Even the slow dry Deft or Colortone products (and others containing naphtha, mineral spirits or "petroleum distillate" - all slow-evaporating and similar in performance) will work, but really slow things down. Lacquers dry by evaporation - they don't "cure" - and while slow drying products can be more forgiving they are also more easily damaged during the very long evaporation process.

    You on't really need alder if you're using an opaque color. Since the wood needs to be primed anyway you can just as easily use common fir, pine, or what is sold as "whitewood" (usually poplar, sometimes basswood). I'd use a bigger piece and ur curves into it to simulate the cutaway, and round off the edges to a 1/16-1/8" radius to approximate the edge contours (the thickness of the piece is irrelevant as long as it's least an inch or so.

    Bolt the piece or suspend it so you are spraying at a 90-degree angle. If it's laying flat coverage will not be even (it'll be heavier close to you and thinner further away, plus there's more of a chance of creating waves/uneven areas. Keep a consistent distance and speed, and spray top-to-bottom with 50% overlap so overspray doesn't drift over freshly coated surfaces.

    Each coat should be VERY light and consist of 3 VERY, VERY light "passes". The last one or two clear coats can be "flood" (or "flow") coats that "lay of the system smoothly without runs.

    A single color coat should NOT cover completely - if it does you're spraying too heavily. Spraying lacquers is NOT like painting an old bike, BBQ, general wood pieces or whatever. Lacquer doesn't contain nearly the same amount of "solids" (pigment and resin - the stuff that actually stays on the surface) as conventional enamels or wall paints, and the 6-7 coats of lacquer provide the same film thickness (roughly) as one or two coats of "paint".

    DON'T SAND BETWEEN COATS - only sand the primer or spot-sand to fix tiny runs (which should be eliminated through practice). Lacquer adheres by melting into previous coats (chemical adhesion) - not by grabbing onto surface roughness (mechanical adhesion) and sanding previous coats will not smooth out following coats. Only good spray technique does that, which is why you practice until you get it smooth enough to buff out (or - worst case - wet sand starting with 1500 at the roughest, with the whole surface sanding process taking only 15-20 minutes.

    As far as the practice piece(s) go, do the ENTIRE process - preparation, sealer/primer, color coats, clear coats and final buffing (preferably with 3 different hard-stick buffing compounds of different grit and a clean cotton buffing wheel for each one. Learn how the products spray, how they cover, how successive coats start to flow together, make mistakes, fix them and do enough practice until you fine-tune your spray technique and get a good looking result.

    So make sure you buy enough material to coat 2-3...even 4...bodies, especially if you've never done this before. There's nothing worse than running short of material 3/4 of the way through the job!
     
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  17. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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    Thanks so much for the detailed tips. Practicing sounds like a real good idea and I appreciate the safety tips.
     
  18. Peltogyne

    Peltogyne Tele-Afflicted

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    I took your first pic into Photoshop, blurred it heavily to even out the color. Then sampled an area left of the bridge, half way to the body edge. This is what the computer says that color is based on the picture. A grayish blue.

    Screen Shot 2019-05-14 at 12.36.58 AM.png
     
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  19. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

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    Sweet great idea! Thanks for the help @Peltogyne !
     
  20. Peltogyne

    Peltogyne Tele-Afflicted

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    I was surprised to see how much green is in that blue.
     
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