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help a pre-rookie micro deluxe add reverb tremolo

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by woodandglue, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    Hi there kind, intelligent people.

    I really would like a small tube amp with reverb and tremolo, but I understand that trouble shooting those builds with a very basic understanding (if I even have that) can be difficult.

    I am considering building a micro deluxe ala robrob and I want to know if you think it is possible to complete a micro deluxe and add the two tube reverb and tremolo after completion, preferably in the same chassis.

    I have a 280-0-280 transformer which is a little bigger than his recommended 275-0-275. I noticed on his site that the micro deluxe puts out a B+1 at 390v and the two tube reverb tremolo needs a minimum of 390v for the reverb driver.

    Let me down slow, steer me in a different direction or let me know I'm in the clear. I am of course in the planning stage at this point. Thank you for your insight.

    Also if you have ideas on other simple small platforms that I should consider, I am open!
     
  2. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    I am less worried about you building/debugging the amp, more worried about where you will find the layout and turret board for the build?

    Had you thought about that at all? Not exactly sure of your capabilities and confidence, is this your first build or?

    Honestly I think building half the amp now and half the amp later is a taller order than just building it all at once.

    The reverb and tremolo circuits can be built and easily isolated so as not to affect starting up the rest of the amp. You can break the project down in this way instead.

    Also, if you build the amp right the first time the debugging process gets real easy. It's possible to do, or get darn close, even on a first build. Put your time in up front. ;)
     
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  3. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    Depends on the type of tremolo (Bias wiggle or opto-coupler?) but the reverb would be easy enough to introduce given you have an appropriate power transformer. Do you know the all the specs of your power transformer, most importantly available current. Adding 2 preamp valves increases the required heater current significantly and the reverb tank driver will require more amps than the average preamp valve.

    I'll also add that if this is you're first build don't overcomplicate it unless you have a solid understanding of why the stuff works.
     
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  4. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for checking in!

    I have not built an amp yet but I did completely recap an old tube radio as a beginner project.

    My goal as a complete rookie is to not get in a spot where I can't get the help I need. The layout for Robrob's micro deluxe is on his site. The turret board for the micro deluxe is available at hoffman's. As for the two tube reverb and tremolo, The layout is point to point. So I think I'm covered there. Please let me know if this is making you cringe.

    I can see where constructing the whole thing at one time would be easier, I have just read that troubleshooting the whole thing as opposed to getting one part working and then moving onto the next might be easier to diagnose my mistakes.

    I like your idea of isolating the project in stages. I really like your hopeful thought of me building it correctly the first time! I would be glad to put in the effort of building it all at once, but then again, I fear the diagnosis of issues, since all I have is a multimeter and a dimbulb.

    I'm also still unsure if I can take a B+1 voltage (from the micro mini) and apply it to part of a circuit considered B+2, or if that would still have too much ripple and I should try a different plan.

    All insight is appreciated!
     
  5. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for chiming in! Every time I ask a question here I always end up learning both from the words written by all of you and from the quick research it takes to get you accurate information. The radio I pulled this power transformer from had 6 tubes that use .3amps a piece and a 6v6 for a total of 2.25 amps. I need to find out what the output transformer needed for the old radio!
    Do you happen to know how to find that out? All I know is the OT has a max output of 3 watts, which doesn't tell me much about the amps.

    The deluxe micro is .6 amps to the two tubes and 1 amp for the PT. The proposed two tube reverb and tremolo and the PT for that are .6 amps for the tubes and 1 amp for the PT. I've thought about figuring out this all at one point but I'm glad you asked! I know I'm pretty close, but I need to figure out that OT.
     
  6. Paul-T

    Paul-T Tele-Holic

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    I would definitely recommend you build the deluxe micro first. Then think about reverb and tremolo. I haven't seen an example of Rob's 2-tube reverb trem in an amp yet and I think it might need some tweaking.

    I am trying to build a deluxe micro with reverb and then trem but building the main circuit first. I'm using the 1-tube reverb. I've added an extra power node. My approach right now is to add in that node, I've added space for the reverb cathode caps and resistors, but won't add them until I get the main circuit working.

    Edit: sorry, for some reason those earlier replies didn't show up.

    But I am pretty certain you would need a separate power node for the extra elements. Check my thread for how I did it. I'll update the thread to show the schematic for the power supply.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  7. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for the heads up! Ill check out your build today. Now that you mention it, I haven't seen any other builds with the two tube verb and trem. I'm not yet at the stage for tweaking.
     
  8. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    I've done a bit more digging and realised you're probably refering to the 5E3M and I don't think this amp is an ideal candidate for the add reverb and tremolo mods. Other than the difference in output valves the topology is entirely different and would require some expertise to incorporate a bias vary tremolo into such an amp and would probably require another half a preamp tube to buffer the LFOs output to the cathode of a preamp valve.

    Also while the reverb is more feasible electronically it sort of defeats the point of a micro amp which is to have a small amp. A reverb tank will increase the size of the amp considerably. My advice would be to look at putting an FX loop in the amp (or not) and either build a tube reverb and tremolo unit or get a good pedal.

    I designed and built my reverb unit for this very reason. The amps I've built are low wattage and compact so adding reverb isn't desirable for these amps.
     
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  9. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    Yes! I am referring to the 5E3Micro. I am no expert, so anything that requires expertise is out of my league. I would like a small sounding amp head with built in tremolo and reverb, but actual size is not a concern. I like your idea of an FX loop. I am grateful to get insight from those who have thought more about these kind of things than I have.
     
  10. jmp81sc

    jmp81sc Tele-Meister

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    Maybe implement the Vibrochamp Tremolo.
     
  11. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    @Asmith presents an interesting project path, build the 5E3M and then build a reverb/tremolo unit to follow like the Revibe. The big reverb plus harmonic tremolo are awesome.

    This stages your project the way you were hoping to do as well. And keeps you completely on-schematic for you first build.

    The con would be the Revibe is like a while other amp with its own transformers, cabinet, etc. Not that you won't immediately want to build another amp, but obviously there's some cost/effort there.
     
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  12. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    That sounds like some solid advice. I may veer slightly off schematic to allow for an FX loop. I sure was hoping this would be simpler than it will be.
     
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  13. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    I was going to suggest the revibe but it is a relatively complex circuit and will probably cost more than the Deluxe Micro build. Depending on where you live and how much your willing to spend the weber kit might be a good option for you. I'm pretty cheap so I wouldn't personally pay that much for a piece of gear like that when I could get a pedal that could probably out perform the unit for less like one of EarthQuaker devices' offerings (then again I'm too cheap for even that so I design my own gear).

    It would require an additional half preamp valve and it'd probably be best to use the other half as a recovery stage following the reverb but it's adding complexity and requires some some design to make the LFO output level suit the output stage.

     
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  14. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    Well, you don't have to consider yourself cheap when looking at the cost (money, time, and effort) of a revibe and turning up your nose. I am willing to go for a different build, but sure would like reverb and tremolo with lower watts. The Revibe is rated at a 4 in complexity and I'll respect that judgement.

    This may end up being a situation of "just because I want it doesn't mean it's going to happen", or there might be some more possibilities out there. Any thoughts on a total rookie taking their time and building an Uncle Doug tremoverb?
     
  15. Paul-T

    Paul-T Tele-Holic

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    What we need, a little down the line, is someone to come up with a 1 1/2 tube reverb, plus the Sluckey trem, as a standalone. I've been thinking of it.

    We have the 6G15 in similar circuits but while it's great for surf it's too much for a lot of music

    The Sluckey trem takes half a tube. It's REALLY easy to use, it simply sends the signal to earth, but you need to tap in at the right spot. That's what I'm hoping to add in my Deluxe Micro. Maybe.
     
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  16. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    My first build was a self-sourced, modded, Twin Reverb conversion from reissue. Sounds like I was less experienced at the time than you are currently. It wasn't like a nightmare or anything, sure it took a couple months to complete. If you have the confidence to take it on, do it -- start a build log here, ask questions, you will get the answers you need.

    Here's my first build thread so you can see how a newbie struggles thru a complex build:
    https://www.tdpri.com/threads/build-65-twin-reverb-reissue-custom-ab763-vibroverb-conversion.741148/

    Plenty of days I had to wait for answers from the group here before proceeding. A team effort for sure!

    The Uncle Doug build is point-to-point. That's interesting!

    One thing that helped me a ton early on was drawing layouts. When you draw/verify a layout against a schematic it's like building/debugging the amp on paper. You get a ton of experience just from doing that, without spending a nickel or heating up the iron.

    Maybe that is something interesting to you, draw up the Uncle Doug trem-o-verb on a turret board? Get us to review it? There is a guy Hoffman Amps that will take your drawing and turn it into an actual turret board ready for build.

    I'm just throwing stuff out there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
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  17. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    Ooh, you're giving me hope, but I'll have to wait. I am not in a position to be an amp pioneer yet.
     
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  18. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    That is solid advice. Tracing a circuit sounds smart. I had not considered that but I like that it would make me better at this without forcing me into my (currently) cold garage!

    Do you think point to point is more difficult than turret construction?
     
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  19. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    Yeah I think it has the potential to make you a little cross-eyed if you're not used to looking at how the amp is all interconnected, I also think without some soldering/hookup experience your odds of melting wire insulation, shorting leads, cold joints etc. goes way up. Point to point assembly can get a bit more surgical, not unlike this classic board game:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. woodandglue

    woodandglue TDPRI Member

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    Gotcha.
    I successfully recappped a point to point tabletop radio this summer / fall and I'm guessing that the turret board might make it easier to replace caps and or resistors.
    By the way, that pic is a pretty accurate depiction of how I felt working in that little beast. $20 USD for the broken radio and $30 for caps provided a good physical education. These conversations are adding in a great layer of thought/ knowledge.
     
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