Headstock sandwich-- strong enough?

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by ppg677, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. ppg677

    ppg677 Tele-Meister

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    Any thoughts as to whether this is a terrible idea? I tried applying downward pressure and sure enough the wood glue joint separated at the end grain joint. Then I put some CA glue in the joint and now its not budging when I apply similar downward pressure. I think the CA glue is pretty effective on the end grain joint...

    String tension will pull it the other way and strength should be fine. Only risk is how well it handles an accidental drop or something.

    Don't ask how I got to this point...

    Total headstock thickness is 0.55". Base wood is .26" maple with the .29" top sandwiched on.

    PhotoEditor_20190610_221003941.jpg
     
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  2. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I'd say it'll be OK and hold, but end grain to end grain doesn't make a strong joint. You could also see the dis-similar wood grain direction move too, leaving a bit of a gap or more pronounced glue line.
     
  3. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    .

    That end grain right at the point where the carving will run out, the nut pressure and headstock bend-rotation point, it's kind of suspect. Could be fine for years, or might not.

    Before you go to the extra work of the fretboard, frets, carving the back of the neck, sanding, finishing, ... you might just get a new stick of lumber and start a new neck setting this one aside.

    I had a couple of necks I bandsawed the headstock too thin, maybe I'll convert them to headless sometime and use them...


    .
     
  4. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    yes it'll be fine, the way the string's tension is applied to the headstock will not be enough to cause a fault...


    rk
     
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  5. TenaciousP

    TenaciousP Tele-Meister

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    I’d be afraid that carving the back profile of the neck and the transition into the headstock would start getting into the 90 degree area of the joint. It may only leave a narrow and thin section of the base wood at the centerline.
     
  6. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've seen Colt W. Knight try to break a Telecaster body and he's a BIG guy. Yes it eventually broke after him slamming it on his bench but did not break on the glued centre line. See it on Youtube.
     
  7. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    What's Colt doing these days anyway?? Anyone keep up with him?

    r
     
  8. RogerC

    RogerC Poster Extraordinaire

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    Been there. Here's how I fixed it, and that guitar is still going strong.

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  9. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I e-mailed him at his place of employment a few months ago and got no response.
     
  10. Jim_in_PA

    Jim_in_PA Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    The undercut or similar as shown in a previous post makes for a stronger glue joint if you must laminate these two thicker pieces. The alternative is to just veneer the face to get the benefit of the figure without any compromise in strength. Regular veneer likely will not require you to reduce the thickness of the headstock other than a few passes of a hand plane. Thick veneer (1/16"/1mm) should probably be taken into account when thicknessing the base headstock.

    That said, I don't think that the joint illustrated, if glued properly, will have adverse qualities when the direction of string tension is considered.
     
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  11. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Do ya know if he ever got his Graduate degree.. Masters if I recall?
     
  12. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Silver Supporter

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  13. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    I forgot about Roger's mishap.It's still rocking though, awesome.

    I think the others for the most part have said it, you should be good for the most part. Time will tell if any movement happens. It's a nice save attempt. I might still work up another neck along with this one in case things go sideways.

    I always associate Colt with Finishing when it come to the TDPRI. He really stopped posting a while back, which is too bad his contributions here were and still are impactful.
    Just saw the newer post, I forgot he's a modern farming man now. Dr, Colt sounds like the name of a gun parts company or guitar.
     
  14. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Yeah, he was a great contributor.... I haven't chatted with him in a few years.... and miss his comments greatly...

    r
     
  15. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    Brilliant Roger, the old "Don't try to hide it, make it a feature." approached to mishaps. Nicely done.

    And I miss Colt too. Might ought to drop Dr. Knight a line. We had discussed getting together for a nip or two of Kentucky's finest when he was in Tucson but I ended up overseas a lot and like so many things we talk about, it never happened.

    Cheers,
    Rex
     
  16. philosofriend

    philosofriend Tele-Holic

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    It's a bolt-on neck, right? Might as well finish it then. Great detective work that led to the CA glue.

    But you know how they say to loosen the strings when you load your guitar on an airplane? On that neck I would leave them tight!

    That Maple looks nice, just keep going.
     
  17. ppg677

    ppg677 Tele-Meister

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    Interesting...I suppose I could cut a slot at the current joint, with a table saw, and glue in a piece of contrasting wood. Then it would be two face-grain-to-end-grain glue joints rather than the single end-grain-to-end grain.

    I did make a second neck as well with a 1/8" veneer. This one fits a bit nicer in the neck slot.
     
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  18. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Tele-Afflicted

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    I would probably install two splines in the back of the head on each side of the truss rod. Most of the time they are used with cross grain failures (Gibson style) but it wouldn't hurt here.
     
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  19. ppg677

    ppg677 Tele-Meister

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    Great idea. Thanks!
     
  20. old wrench

    old wrench Tele-Holic

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    It's not a good situation, but I don't think it's as bad as it looks at first sight :).

    Physics are actually working in your favor, so I think you'll be OK.

    Once you're strung up, string pull will put the end grain joint in compression, and the tuners will help tie things together too.

    There have been a few times, when I've thought that I've committed a truly novel and one of a kind f-up, some kind soul has come along and said, "yeah, that was pretty dumb, but it's not that bad, I did that myself one time" ;).





    Best Regards,
    Geo.
     
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